I've been using Fargo since it was launched and highly recommend it.
I use it every day for jotting down quick notes, keeping a work journal, as well as planning out larger projects.
There's already an active community of programmers and writers using it to do some pretty interesting things. And the guys behind it are constantly listening to user feedback[1] to build functionality to match how people are actually using the product.
If you're hesitant about connecting to Dropbox, give http://littleoutliner.com/ a try. It uses the same outliner code as Fargo, but uses your browser's localStorage for the storage mechanism. It's really pretty cool.
If you do decide to give Fargo a try, make sure to open the Community Feed (Docs > Community Feed). If you can't figure something out after going through the very thorough documentation[2][3], feel free to shoot us a question.
There's lots of other cool stuff under the hood that you probably won't notice at first, like:
- It's a not just an outliner but it's also a outlined chat/collaboration tool.
- It's not just an outliner but it's also a Javascript programming environment. i.e. you can execute functions that that you write in the outlines.
- It's not just an outliner, it's a front end to your blogging platform.
Also, don't worry about connecting it to Dropbox. It sandboxes all it's activities under the Apps/Fargo folder so won't go crazy with your files.
Already there is a lot to try out and hopefully this will be the new frontier that we have been waiting for.
I couldn't figure out how to delete an item. Also kept getting "you have 1 synced document" growl notifications on Mac. Other than those issues, this looks to be really useful!
I've been a longtime workflowy user and recently started using Fargo. Here are my likes, dislikes and feature requests.
Likes:
- Dropbox storage
- Calendar outlines as well as free form outlines
- The 'Instant outline' communication model
Dislikes:
- Too much mouse, keyboard interaction due to Fargo's quasi-implementation of the vim like command-mode (structure) and insert (text) mode sans vim-like idempotent 'esc' and 'i' or 'r' toggles.
-- So, Enter in fargo lets one exit out of structure mode by opening a sibling node, (== vim 'o') - The lack of an 'esc' however forces one to use the mouse to get back to structure mode and than keyboard 'del' to remove this empty node.
-- A mouse click on a node in structure mode gets one into insert mode. (== vim i)
- To navigate up/down by keyboard requires one to switch from down arrow to right arrow at an indent. Why can't i just use the down arrow?
Feature requests
- Auto-convert all http:// entries into <a href= links
- Support hashtags like workflowy
- Allow intra-outline linking
- Allow devs to build plugins / macros so they can customize it to suit their needs.
- Allow for multi-line outline entries (maybe a shift-enter)
Workflowy is an excellent product, but having the outlines in Dropbox means you have copies of the files locally and can share them with other apps that work with OPML, which is a fairly standard file format among outliners.
FYI, the keyboard shortcuts on http://littleoutliner.com/ seem to prevent me from using cmd+opt+I or cmd+opt+U when the window has focus. cmd+opt+J works though.
fargo is most definitely an interesting web-app,
and i can see it being useful for many people...
dave is a little bit over-enthusiastic about it
-- there are literally dozens of writing tools
that've been using dropbox for a long time now,
to correct just one of his main brag-points --
but it's not a crime to love what you've made.
(nate kontny is similarly proud of his "draft",
another writing-oriented web-tool that's newish
and attracting a lot of fans with its qualities.)
you've censored me too many times for me to
contribute to any endeavor that you control,
dave, so i'd pass on your listserve anyway...
but such a listserve is largely unnecessary.
it's easy enough to find such writing-tools,
just by googling with the appropriate terms.
(or, if you wanna just go immediately to the
most versatile: https://www.textdropapp.com;
but fair warning, the yearly cost is $32+.)
besides, dropbox support was big _last_year_.
this year, something better is now available.
i'll leave you to your own devices to find it,
dave, and continue to wish you the best of luck,
even if i feel you haven't treated me so nicely.
and i certainly won't let your animosity color my
view of your software, and the potential it has.
although, to be honest, i think your earlier take
-- that an outlining tool and a writing tool are
two different types of tools, and need to retain
their separate focus in order to be their best --
was the correct one, and your new hope that you
can leverage fargo into a general writing tool is
one that will ultimately flop. but hey, that's
just my opinion, and i'd love to see your users
prove me wrong, and do amazing stuff with fargo.
Nothing changed in my view about the relationship between outlining and general writing tools. Fargo is an almost exact clone of the outliner I created in 1987.
and, as i said, i think your earlier take (in march and april) was more accurate, and that an attempt to go broader will cause fargo to lose focus, just as you said in the april piece. but, again, i would love to be proven wrong. because my tool-set attacks the issue from the other direction -- with a focus on the writing and editing and publishing of long-form documents -- and i've decided not to incorporate any outlining capability because i think it would blur that focus. but if your users can show me how to avoid that blurring, i will learn from them. but lacking that, i believe that (early) outlining is best seen as a good complement to (later) editing and publishing, at least for long-form documents.
*
> I don't feel any animosity toward you, I don't know where that's coming from.
well, dave, you probably cannot be expected to keep track of all the people you censor and block.
but you have censored my comments more than once, and blocked me on twitter.
and while i am quite sure that you don't have any _personal_ animosity toward me, since you don't even know me, the acts of censorship and blocking are _not_ friendly ones. from your perspective, you're probably just "protecting" yourself from us "trolls". but i'd guess that you can imagine it looks different from my perspective.
so no, i'm not gonna contribute to a listserve where you can censor my input. i'll stay independent, so i can call you out when you're wrong, and give you credit when you do good.
Blocking isn't something I have to answer to anyone for, it's a feature in Twitter that's useful to help keep down the flamage. I think it's one of their greatest innovations.
A little feedback -- you read a lot of meaning into things that are a lot simpler than you think. For example, the markdown support was added because it was coming up a lot in feature requests from users. It's just that simple. Nothing more to it than that.
I've always used MORE and its descendants to write. I wrote every DaveNet piece in MORE or Frontier or the OPML Editor. I write Scripting News in the OPML Editor. Outliners are good for writing.
Like I said, I don't dislike you, or even know you (as you point out). And it probably doesn't matter if you contribute to the mail list, but I don't see how it could hurt. Whatever.
> Blocking isn't something I have to answer to anyone for
i wasn't asking you to "answer to" me for your blocking...
if you want to ignore people like me who say things that we
think you need to hear, go ahead and ignore us, i don't care.
heck, that's the reason why so many people ignore _you_, dave.
> I think it's one of their greatest innovations.
i'm sure you do. but ignoring people is not an "innovation".
i was merely telling you why i wouldn't join your listserve,
even if i did think it'd be useful. (and, as i said, i don't;
i can get more information by simply searching around a bit.
and further, the horizon of the cloud has eclipsed dropbox.)
> markdown support was added because it was coming up a lot
um, yes, dave, i quite well understand that it is your users
who are moving you toward using fargo as a writing-tool, and
that's precisely why i said i hope that they succeed with it,
so i can learn from _them_ how to make such a dual focus work.
what you or i _think_ can work doesn't really matter (which is
why i'm not interested in your effort to tell me what you think).
what matters is whether people can show me a way to make it work.
> I write Scripting News in the OPML Editor.
and finally, yes, dave, it's certainly possible to use an outliner
to write lots and lots and lots and lots of short blog articles.
but that's not long-form writing. a _book_ is long-form writing,
one cohesive entity that has an arc from the beginning to the end.
heck, mike cane has used twitter to "write" over 275,000 tweets,
but i don't consider _that_ to be "long-form writing" either...
um, no, that's not my account. that's an australian woman.
and i never told you to "shut up", directly or indirectly.
plus, when i do use that phrase, it's only in a joking way,
because i'm a poet and i believe very deeply in free speech.
also, i don't do "rants" -- my tone is always even-tempered,
and i use reason, not emotion -- plus my inspiration is _not_
"dark", let alone "very dark", let alone "very very dark"...
i take myself quite lightly, which is why i fly with angels.
so no, i won't be writing any gothic novels any time soon. :+)
now, have a nice day.
-bowerbird
p.s. apologies to lurkers, for letting this go so far off-topic.
this dialog has now become too boring for the lurkers
-- they care why you banned me even less than i do --
so i am officially leaving this thread at this time...
but notice that my participation in this thread started with:
> fargo is most definitely an interesting web-app,
> and i can see it being useful for many people...
it seems you can never say enough positive things about dave.
I've been following Dave on outliners for a long while. I haven't made the switch from workflowy yet.
Would be nice if tools like subtask.com would layer nicely on outliners. IE the outline from Fargo could be used to create the mindmap or vice versa. Preferably keeping themselves in sync rather than importing/exporting manually.
I use Workflowy as well, and Fargo didn't feel quite as convenient to me. One thing in particular I noticed was that moving an item to the same level as its parent is easier in Workflowy.
So I'm sticking with Workflowy for now. I just wish it allowed me to add multiline leaf items!
I use it every day for jotting down quick notes, keeping a work journal, as well as planning out larger projects.
There's already an active community of programmers and writers using it to do some pretty interesting things. And the guys behind it are constantly listening to user feedback[1] to build functionality to match how people are actually using the product.
If you're hesitant about connecting to Dropbox, give http://littleoutliner.com/ a try. It uses the same outliner code as Fargo, but uses your browser's localStorage for the storage mechanism. It's really pretty cool.
If you do decide to give Fargo a try, make sure to open the Community Feed (Docs > Community Feed). If you can't figure something out after going through the very thorough documentation[2][3], feel free to shoot us a question.
[1]: http://threads2.scripting.com/2013/may/mathewTaughtMeSomethi...
[2]: http://smallpicture.com/outlinerHowto.html
[3]: http://smallpicture.com/fargoDocs.html