I think central authorities absolutely must make that call. Who else is going to decide how to dole out a scarce social resource? Americanizing healthcare is obviously not a good choice given how much worse it does overall by basically every measure (unless you're rich and don't give a toss about other people).
I certainly agree that central authorities can be better. But that's kind of a truism.
What alternative options do you have in mind? Admittedly I'm short on alternative ideas.
I understand why people don't want money to completely decide who gets health care. But I don't think it should be a complete non-factor either. If I've worked hard and saved diligently for an emergency, and an emergency arrives, I feel I should be able to tell a doctor "will you treat me? I have money".
But if you insist upon perfect equality of health care access, I guess it can't be. Some central authority has to decide if anyone is allowed to treat you, regardless of what you've saved for the eventuality.
Medical tourism will always be a thing for the rich. But I personally do not see an argument for driving a social service, even if only slightly, with capitalism.
Perhaps that’s part of my developing thought on the matter: the public system paid by tax dollars should be equitable to all. But by all means, take your credit card to Pepsi Presents: For Profit Medical Centre and get a full work up.
What makes the cut of a "social service"? Wouldn't it be anything people really need? Basic food staples, for example?
China tried socializing food production, and it worked terribly. Production tripled when they re-privatized it and let farmers grow for themselves. People do a better job when they get to keep the rewards.
US health care isn't capitalist in this sense of rewarding a good job. It's the worst of both worlds: a system whose regulations are superbly adapted to optimize profit for the administrative class at the expense of both doctors and patients.
Some Americans think that the US Healthcare way is “the right way but Slightly Off-Track(tm)” and will not be suaded.
You asked a direct question, though, to what extent do social services exist.
Social services exist to ensure that we all have a decent foundation on which to conduct our business of living.
For some that will be as you say, providing basic food and housing. In fact in Sweden food is given to children for free in school; however in the UK it is only poor students that get it.
In Sweden water is free, in the UK it’s charged but it’s a utility that cannot be turned off.
Everyone draws the line somewhere else, but the basis is meant to be that we have a solid foundation.
Unexpected medical expenses shouldn’t decimate a household economy for a decade, it doesn’t matter how unprepared the household is. But this is my personal feeling.
In addition: tying health insurance to employment and having at-will working conditions strikes me as ensuring compliance/docility in the work place, which I don’t believe in.
1) it's not a shallow dismissal if neither position is interested in having a conversation.
2) it's not unkind to point out the truth, it's not possible to persuade people that the American healthcare system has a fundamental architectural problem, they believe wholeheartedly that it would work if it wasn't for the <insert consequential factor here>
it's not an intellectually honest conversation, it's shallow, everyone has dug in. it's boring.
You've replied to my post, but I honestly cannot tell who you are talking to, or whether your assertions about whoever you're talking about are in any way connected to anything I've said.
It could be that this style of engagement is why you're bored. It does seem boring to talk to people without actually talking to them.
You're talking about "keeping the fruits of labour", in the context of socialised healthcare, however it seems the majority of the world is doing perfectly fine with socialised healthcare. In fact it seems that less tax money is spent on healthcare in countries that just nationalise it.
That's the relation, that's why it's boring, because you'll never truly argue the point or consider another perspective. You can't be persuaded, and neither can I, reasonably.
So, what's the point.
Go live in your squalid hole and I'll go live in mine and lets not pretend that either of us aren't brainwashed in some way, because there's no possible way that we're going to conclude this discussion that I keep seeing repeated on every public forum ad infinitum.
Why bother intruding into a discussion to announce how exhausted you are by it? It means nothing to us, and it's more effort for you. You could just ignore it and be less exhausted.
I'm basically telling you both to shut the fuck up because we're rehashing the same shit as forever.
Unless either of you are willing to engage in intellectually honest, curious conversation then you should honestly just keep your gob shut.
Flame wars help nothing, rehashing this helps nothing. We're walking in circles, save your energy, I'm wasting mine in an effort to save yours in future.
I made a couple points and it seems like you think that, based on those points, you know much more about what I believe than I even know myself, and hold a great deal of contempt for me and whatever it is I apparently believe.
I would love to have an open and inquisitive conversation. I am open-minded about how we structure our system. There are many considerations, and costs and benefits to any method. I do not think socialized or public structures are bad or inferior to private ones.
I do think it helps for people to be rewarded for their labor, but it isn't the only consideration, and it can be worked out in a range of systems.
Even though quite cheap in most places, water is not necessarily free in Sweden - at least not according to the bill I receive every month...
(I believe if you knock on someone's door and ask for water you can't say no to that person - if within reason - and there are usually lots of public/free places to get water to drink)
I certainly agree that central authorities can be better. But that's kind of a truism.
What alternative options do you have in mind? Admittedly I'm short on alternative ideas.