1) it's not a shallow dismissal if neither position is interested in having a conversation.

2) it's not unkind to point out the truth, it's not possible to persuade people that the American healthcare system has a fundamental architectural problem, they believe wholeheartedly that it would work if it wasn't for the <insert consequential factor here>

it's not an intellectually honest conversation, it's shallow, everyone has dug in. it's boring.

You've replied to my post, but I honestly cannot tell who you are talking to, or whether your assertions about whoever you're talking about are in any way connected to anything I've said.

It could be that this style of engagement is why you're bored. It does seem boring to talk to people without actually talking to them.

You're talking about "keeping the fruits of labour", in the context of socialised healthcare, however it seems the majority of the world is doing perfectly fine with socialised healthcare. In fact it seems that less tax money is spent on healthcare in countries that just nationalise it.

That's the relation, that's why it's boring, because you'll never truly argue the point or consider another perspective. You can't be persuaded, and neither can I, reasonably.

So, what's the point.

Go live in your squalid hole and I'll go live in mine and lets not pretend that either of us aren't brainwashed in some way, because there's no possible way that we're going to conclude this discussion that I keep seeing repeated on every public forum ad infinitum.

it's fucking exhausting.

Why bother intruding into a discussion to announce how exhausted you are by it? It means nothing to us, and it's more effort for you. You could just ignore it and be less exhausted.

I'm basically telling you both to shut the fuck up because we're rehashing the same shit as forever.

Unless either of you are willing to engage in intellectually honest, curious conversation then you should honestly just keep your gob shut.

Flame wars help nothing, rehashing this helps nothing. We're walking in circles, save your energy, I'm wasting mine in an effort to save yours in future.

You're welcome.

I made a couple points and it seems like you think that, based on those points, you know much more about what I believe than I even know myself, and hold a great deal of contempt for me and whatever it is I apparently believe.

I would love to have an open and inquisitive conversation. I am open-minded about how we structure our system. There are many considerations, and costs and benefits to any method. I do not think socialized or public structures are bad or inferior to private ones.

I do think it helps for people to be rewarded for their labor, but it isn't the only consideration, and it can be worked out in a range of systems.