What makes this so painful for me is that person responsible, the comission president von der Leyen, was not actually elected by the people.
We need some massive reforms and rebuilding after this. There already was a lot of EU scepticism, and instead of taking this opportunity to shine, they completely squandered it and destroyed trust.
> What makes this so painful for me is that person responsible, the comission president von der Leyen, was not actually elected by the people.
Forgive me for picking on this, but I see it regularly come up whenever the deficit of democracy in the EU is discussed and I completely disagree with that assessment.
The President of the US is not elected by "the people". The PMs of most countries are invited to form a government by the head of state, not directly by the people. This is a common feature in many democracies, executive roles are not directly elected and are instead picked based on support by parliamentary majorities. The President of the European Commission is elected by the Parliament, which is itself elected directly by the people of the EU. I see absolutely no problem there.
There are other things which deserve more attention, like the disproportionate amount of power the Council has vis a vis the Commission and the Parliament.
Thanks for being the 1000 person to explain this to me.
They promised before the election that the candidate of the strongest party would get the job.
The whole plan was to strengthen the parliament, and the whole promise was broken after the election, _because_ the council wanted to make sure the parliament and commission are kept weak.
Whenever I have this discussion people for some reasons assume I don't know even the most basic mechanics of the system I critize.
And the same people always conveniently forget what we were promised during the election campaign. All parties agreed to make the candidate of the strongest party after the election the commission president. They all promised that.
Von der Leyen is the council and national governments taking a dump on the parliament. And it didn stop there! During the backroom deals that lead to this, the parliament negotiated that they will only play along if they finally get more power.
Fast forward a couple of months and they got stiffed and insulted again. The brexit deal i.e. was an affront to parliament, because they didn't even get to vote it on it. The vaccine deals were kept secret from them. And on and on and on.
The only directly elected body in the EU is constantly being disrespected.
You act like these are separate problems, but the fact that we got von der Leyen, who didn't even run in the election, IS THE SAME thing as the problem of Power of council vs. Commission vs. Parliament. The later caused the former.
(Sorry for the tone, I got angry, but not at you. Please read it in mickey mouse voice to take the edge off.)
Personally, I think that the Commission should be directly elected by the Parliament from it's members, which would make it much more similar to the national governments.
I'm not sure the Council (i.e. the member states) would agree to that though.
At least since Lisbon, the EP has some (not enough) power over Commissioners.
I agree. This would also mean there have to be coalition negotiations. It would drastically increase the public debate across Europe and give people more stake in what is going on.
This is not by some accident of history. It is a deliberate decision of euro-skeptic countries to avoid turning the EU into a superstate. It is usually the same countries who then go to complain about the "democratic deficit" of the EU institutions. I went through the Brexit referendum debates and the hypocrisy was rank.
I.e. national governments using EU to pass legislation, which they then oppose locally, claiming the evil EU is forcing it upon them against their will.
Generally, blaming all bad things on the EU and acting like it's a foreign power whenever it servers their needs, obfuscating the the national governments are the ones with most power over EU decisions.
The trouble is that none of the parties involved have any incentive to fix this. The national governments certainly don't, because it gives them a convenient way to pass laws they don't like, and the EU doesn't either because it both gives the EU more power and makes national governments beholden to them. For all the talk some populist politicians make about leaving the EU, it's not like they actually would because that would mean giving up their power to pass laws without that inconvenient democratic accountability.
I reckon this was a major reason Brexit went the way it did. Supporters of the EU liked to point to the fact that actually, our government was behind a lot of the unpopular EU actions to argue that Brexit supporters had been tricked into wanting to leave the EU. What they didn't get was how completely unconvincing an argument that is. The politicians who were busy undermining and blocking any attempt to leave the EU also used it as a way to pass laws that the people they represent didn't want, shielding themselves from any kind of accountability to the general populace, and that was meant to make everyone fall in line behind them and want to remain in the EU? Ridiculous.
Could you clarify what you mean, please? Surely the argument is that some politicians busy undermining the EU and promoting leaving it, or other manoeuvres born out of Eurosceptic populism, also used the EU as a way to shield themselves from responsibility for unpopular laws via passing them "abroad", which they could use to then rally their domestic basic on Eurosceptic grounds, isn't it? You seem to be saying the opposite.
It is possible for the EU to both have a democratic deficit, and for the completely opaque and unaccountable process for choosing the head of the Commission to be a part of that. Bear in mind, the EU Parliament is not a real parliament, so it does not improve things much when the 'spitzenkandidaten' is selected. That's how Juncker happened, a literal alcoholic. EU always ends up with failures at the top, it seems to be an unwritten law.
> Just like in the UK where the PM is elected by each democratically elected MP
That's not the case. The PM is appointed by the Monarch, who will almost always choose the leader of the party able to command a majority in the House of Commons. That leader will be chosen according to the rules of their party. Boris Johnson won an election where all eligible members of the Conservative Party had a vote; it is the case that the shortlist of two was decided by MPs.
The PM is also a regular MP and has to be elected by their local constituency voters.
Technically of course, however the monarch is "advised" by the previous prime minster, who by convention tells her the person who can command confidence the house, which is the person who will get 50%+1 of the votes.
If we're being technical the PM does not have to be an elected MP, and can be from the house of lords.
Yes, but the candidate was Weber. Von der Leyen didn't even run for parliament.
It was all a big deuce dropped on the parliament, really. The parliament is the only directly elected body in the EU, and the nations governments hate the idea that it could gain any kind of real power.
The German chancellor is elected the same way. There is nothing preventing a candidate change after the election, plus there is no way to tell which coalition will actually form. And still almost nobody would argue that the German federal government isn't democratically legitimized.
I mean why do all of you just keep ignoring what I'm saying?
We were promised that the candidate of the winning party would get the job!
All parties in the election agreed to that. We had debates between the candidates rooted on that promise. The whole election was based on that.
The EU has serious problems with democratic legitimacy, it has serious problems with Trust, and yet people defend those moves because they are technically legal.
The voters were told one thing and they got another thing.
And then the EU does an about-face and wonders why there is so many people distrusting it.
Do you want the EU to succeed or not? If you want it to succeed, like I do, we have to call out the issues and fix them, instead of defending broken things because we still believe in the whole.
The EU will never reach its potential if we don't mature it's political system and give the people some direct, visible control.
For me the biggest deal breaker is that the laws come out of nowhere. Suddenly there is policy, then vote and then implementation. If you don't like the proposed laws you cannot vote down people who proposed it. Then when it comes to vote of parliament is often too late. Most MEP don't even know what they vote anyway (watch any session, it's eye opening). I don't know how anyone can stand for it and defend it.
In US Congress you can only vote down the member from your district. In the EU, your vote impacts the selection of MEPS not just for one small district, but for an entire country’s worth of MEPs. So your vote does matter and you can vote down the party you disagree with. You just don’t seem to understand how it works. Watch any parliament at work and it’s just as eye opening.
> In US Congress you can only vote down the member from your district.
In the US Congress you can vote for, or against, both your district’s representative in the House and your entire state’s representatives in the Senate.
But, more important, the EP, while it is involved in some legislation, doesn't have the preeminent lawmaking power that you'd expect of a parliament; the European Commission has legislative initiative, and their legislation must be confirmed by the European Council and in some cases the European Parliament.
So, great, the electoral system for the EP is arguably more effectively representative than that for the IS Congress, but that would matter a lot more if the EP had the legislative role of the US Congress or a normal parliament.
> In the EU, your vote impacts the selection of MEPS not just for one small district, but for an entire country’s worth of MEPs.
With the result that candidates aren't accountable to voters, only to party bureaucracy, since their chances of reelection depend much more on where they are on the party list than on how many voters approved of their voting.
Not to mention that MEPs don't get to write the laws - the laws are written by the unelected commision.
In the UK in a landslide election, about 70% of MPs retain their seats. The only threat to the majority of Tory and Labour MPs at a given election is the threat of deselection by about 300 local party members.
Depending on the country there may be a party list system, but in somewhere like Ireland you vote for the individual members via a very democratic STV.
That some national governments have instituted a closed list system instead is a failing of those national governments, who want to keep the power with themselves rather than with the people.
> In the UK in a landslide election, about 70% of MPs retain their seats.
If 30% are voted out then that suggests more (perhaps 60%?) were at risk of being voted out to the point where it would influence their decisions.
> The only threat to the majority of Tory and Labour MPs at a given election is the threat of deselection by about 300 local party members.
Which is again a big improvement in accountability over what MEPs face.
> Depending on the country there may be a party list system, but in somewhere like Ireland you vote for the individual members via a very democratic STV.
By which you mean every country in the EU except Ireland and Belgium uses a party list system, and even the Belgian system is mostly party list based (just split by language as well).
> If 30% are voted out then that suggests more (perhaps 60%?) were at risk of being voted out to the point where it would influence their decisions.
No, that's not how elections in the UK work
> Which is again a big improvement in accountability over what MEPs face.
MPs get to be voted out by their local parties
MEPs in Ireland get to be voted out by the voters without the failures of the undemocratic FPTP system
That's not a problem with the EU, it's a problem with the individual countries. Just like the power resting with the council (like nominating head of commission. The rest of the commissioners are more like US Secretarys who are nominated by the president and approved by congress)
This is a failure with the nation states, similar to the days when states appointed electoral college directly from their senate rather than via popular vote.
Incumbents losing 100% of elections would not be a sign of a healthy democracy; the obvious candidate for an ideal target would be 50% (given that the post-2010 UK is a de facto two-party system). So 30% is not so bad relative to that.
> MEPs in Ireland get to be voted out by the voters without the failures of the undemocratic FPTP system
Ireland's 13 MEPs are democratically accountable (though even then, an individual voter must split their attention 13 ways). The other 692 aren't.
> That's not a problem with the EU, it's a problem with the individual countries. Just like the power resting with the council (like nominating head of commission. The rest of the commissioners are more like US Secretarys who are nominated by the president and approved by congress)
So what's the practical fix? The EU passed a lot of unpopular measures for which no-one was visibly accountable (and it really doesn't matter if there was some legal mechanism for the UK to avoid implementing them, given that actually exercising any such mechanism was outside the Overton window of UK politics). Leaving the EU was a crude sledgehammer that's had a lot of collateral damage, but how else could UK voters have got away from laws written by party cronies and voted on by other party cronies? The EU's lack of accountability is not a superficial flaw that they're working on fixing; it's deep-rooted and it's hard to escape the idea that the powers that be like it that way.
yawn.. why do you brexiteers even care about EU anymore?
The European Commission isn't directly elected by citizens in the EU but the President of the Commission needs to be approved by Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) who are elected by voters from member states. MEPs also vote on whether to approve Commissioners who are nominated by governments of member states. In no country citizens directly elect the government. EU commission EU's government. The commission president is equivalent with a PM
We were promised that the candidate of the strongest party in the parliament election will get the job.
Every time this comes up people explain to me again what I already know, and never ever they seem to remember what the people were promised before the election.
That system was propagated by the two “Spitzenkandidaten” themselves. It’s not a law nor did the national governments sign up for it.
So yes, it was a bit of deception, created as part of of a fight between institutions. Just about nobody decided their vote based on these candidates, anyway.
> It would be hard for individual countries to do any worse.
It would be pretty easy for any individual countries that don't actually produce vaccines to do worse.
Just look at Canada, for instance. It's a rich country that hoarded vaccine pre-orders (Enough to vaccinate its population three times over), and what was the result? A lower vaccination rate than the EU. That's because Canada does not control any part of the R&D or manufacturing process, so its orders got pushed to the back of the line. And neither do most of the countries in the EU.
What makes you think Slovakia or Greece, or Italy are going to be any better off? What makes you think that if vaccine procurement were up to each individual country, that any of those countries would see a single dose before, say, Belgium reached 100% vaccination?
By having the best distribution system in the world, and by leveraging that into a promise to gather data on vaccine efficacy before anyone else can.
This trick only works for one small wealthy country. Nobody cares so much about the second fastest set of vaccination health data that they will prioritize shipments to your country. Slovakia and Greece would still be shit out of luck.
It's like pointing at a lottery winner, and saying - 'look, this is the strategy you all should be emulating to get out of poverty.' The problem is, there is only one winner, and there is only one guinea pig of a country that will commit itself to being a case study for a fast, full rollout, as long as it gets priority on vaccines.
Also, Israel's impressive vaccination statistics conveniently ignore its Palestinian population, which is not getting those doses.
I would love for the EU to even give glimpses of a super government; what I see is fractal bureaucracy. Every crysis that seems to come up, it's a show of people in suits, negociating and coming up with plans and commisions and big worded manifests, and coming up with solutions sometimes decades after the initial spark.
I come from Central Eastern Europe i.e. the poor people of the great EU. Our government is incompetent, corrupt, all the stereotypical attributes, and somehow, the most incompetent, lazy and corrupt end up Europoliticians (note: this is not a rule, there are exceptions). It's almost like a status symbol of when you beat the system; you get a nice cozy place where you do nothing. I am highly skeptical that we are alone in this.
Then, from a ground level, as someone that wants to love the European Union and can see the great economic benefits it brought us since joining, I can't help but stare in awe as all the brain gets drained from my country. Every single capable person has to decide whether they want to stay here and basically fight for scraps or go to the west where they get money they couldn't dream of here.
Sorry for the rant, your mention of a super government made me irrationaly angry at something I can't have, or don't want in its current form, and your deconstruction point is very much aligned with what I think needs to happen' currently.
The idea of a competent super government encompassing 700 million people is a fantasy. Instead, as the EU heads toward more integration you’ll see more of the debilitating infighting that makes the US government so dysfunctional. Once Germany and France start chipping into the common tax base, your politics will become preoccupied with telling Poland it has to have abortion or something similar. When you’re subsidizing someone else you feel entitled to tell them how to live.
Visa and borders won't stop capable people from migrating out of the country that you are amusingly planning to fix by isolation. It didn't before you joined the bloc, it won't after you "deconstruct the EU" — and you know it well.
As long as you have precisely pinpointed the issue with supplying EP with incompetent MEPs (a common problem among most members of the bloc today, arguably including the appointment of Ursula von der Leyen), you've resorted to a completely destructive resolution of deconstructing the EU. As a punishment for the failures of your homeland, I suppose? "Bad EU did it, not our fault" is such a common trope among local politicians (hallo Österreich[1] from the latest news) and some citizens.
The solution is in fixing your domestic politics, not dragging your capable citizens and fellow European neighbors down. It's solely thanks to the European Union's common approach[2] that the small/poor members of the bloc have truly equal access to vaccines. Otherwise small countries would have never been able to outbid rich Germany, France, UK, Netherlands and other power states on the free market. As you understand, there are no benefits for Germany, France et al. in this collective decision, they're literally paying with the lives of their citizens for the idea of the EU. A little gratitude.
By being in the same boat, we will together overcome pandemic, poverty and political incompetence. You're free to disagree, just don't pretend that your local brexit will go swimmingly — it isn't rosy even for such a developed country as the UK.
Oh please, rich EU countries haven't accepted the eastern block countries in the EU out of charity, they did it because it benefited them massively.
Big French and German businesses could now export their products to millions more people without tariffs and relocate production there lowering the cost and making insane profits.
Danish, French, Dutch and Austrian banks took over the banking business in the eastern block offering the citizens there much higher fees and interests than they would in their home countries, again, making massive profits which got funneled back "home".
IKEA, German and Austrian furniture and logging companies are heavily involved in illegal deforestation in Romania via bribes and corruption.
Austrian construction companies are often involved in corruption scandals for shitty and massively overpriced infrastructure projects in the Eastern Block, some with EU money even.
And not to mention the workforce and 'brain drain' that moved to the west benefiting the businesses, both white collar and especially agriculture, and also the landlords there on a huge scale.
The EU expansion has been a massive wealth transfer project of taxpayer money from rich countries to the big businesses and asset owners of the same rich countries, funneled through the newer poorer members in form of various EU projects. And of course the poorer members then get the blame by the populist politicians in the richer countries because they're "stealing your tax Euros and your jobs" even though their policies directly enabled and supported this wealth and job transfer in the first place as it benefited the big and well connected businesses in their countries.
> Oh please, rich EU countries haven't accepted the eastern block countries in the EU out of charity, they did it because it benefited them massively.
Oh, you know perfectly well which paragraph you pulled this sentence from. Nothing will sell the idea of exchanging tens of thousands of lives for some kind of commercial benefits for some large companies to the citizens of advanced European countries, if the citizens themselves didn't believe in the European Union. It just doesn't work like that in Europe.
> Big French and German businesses could now export their products to millions more people without tariffs and relocate production there lowering the cost and making insane profits.
Yeah, these pesky businesses optimize costs and seek profits, who would have thought. They do it while developing the industry and create a pool of high-grade (Germany and Western Europe is known for quality goods) specialists in regions where such competencies have often never existed. It's all obvious, the same thing is repeated again and again. You know who else benefits? Competitive companies from the poorer/newer members of the bloc, which now have a massive open market to compete due to the lower OpEx/labor costs, and essentially pushing stagnant players out of their home markets. E.g. my customers are a small factory supplying manufactured goods and high quality services all over the EU, especially Sweden, Germany and Switzerland—for a much lower price. My company is able to provide SWE solutions for companies in France and Finland just like to local businesses. Some of my partners run a 3-employees SWE consulting company from home offices in Estonia, providing services for a particular Spanish fintech enterprise as if it were across the street. It wouldn't be possible without the EU, the market is truly open and transparent without red taping.
> Austrian construction companies are often involved in corruption scandals for shitty and massively overpriced infrastructure projects in the Eastern Block, some with EU money even.
I don't get it, this is just ridiculous. You do realize that corrupt governments and institutions are exploited by foreign forces all the time, it doesn't have to be European? China[1][2] and Russia[3] are heavily involved in such activities, both are outside the EU. What's your point? It's not EU's fault that some Eastern politicians/institutions are corrupt, but this is its prospect problem and responsibility[4], I'd agree with that.
> The EU expansion has been a massive wealth transfer project of taxpayer money from rich countries to the bg businesses and asset owners of the same rich countries, funneled through the newer poorer members in form of various EU projects.
These allegations run counter to the economic growth charts of almost all countries that have joined the European Union. This definitely contradicts the economic situation in Estonia (again, Eastern Europe); also below is a reply by an Irish citizen, country which got richer after joining the bloc.
You're clearly reaching the anti-EU narrative with your exploitation/corruption claims, and you do it quite lazily. As I said, start by putting things in order in your home country, and then threaten or moan at the "oppressive" European Union. If you don’t change your mind by then.
> The solution is in fixing your domestic politics
This logic is akin to forcibly beating someone with their own hand and asking "why do you beat yourself". When the best people leave then it's blindingly obvious they aren't available to fix domestic politics, isn't it?
And as eastern europe does not have colonial past, there isn't large pool of brains that know local language and can be drained from third world to replace people who left.
I think it's in interest of whole EU that best people stay in their countries. Instead of just sending money via cohesion funds, it should think about creating local opportunities for them.
I dunno man, it can work. I'm from Ireland and back when we were a poor country, everyone left for the UK, US or Australia. Mind you, that was true before we joined the EU.
However, because of the EU, we were able to get a lot richer, and now people actually come to Ireland for work (which still blows my mind, even though it's normal now).
> This logic is akin to forcibly beating someone with their own hand and asking "why do you beat yourself". When the best people leave then it's blindingly obvious they aren't available to fix domestic politics, isn't it?
I type this reply from my home office in Estonia, Northeastern Europe. I did witness massive brain drain before 2003 when Estonia joined the EU, and I have many (some are exceptionally well educated) friends who left the country afterwards. Just recently a very well educated young neurosurgeon I know made the decision to leave for pursuing the postgrad in Canada and then Switzerland, both countries outside the EU (oh snap, "bad EU" is not guilty this time). Should I blame Canada for a local provincial academic/research landscape? How can I punish them, maybe cheer for some of their trade block to collapse? Pathetic.
I'd rather double-think about my domestic electoral preferences and what can I personally do to transform my country so that more people (many already do) would consider returning. I don't follow who's forcibly beating Eastern European countries with their hands and how exactly: people move all the time in all directions for better opportunities. That's how it is, people move from Finland to Sweden, from Sweden to Norway, from Norway to Germany, etc. It's fine. It provides a much larger landscape of opportunities for different population slices. The EU has made this movement much easier, but Estonians supplied Finland with labor well before joining the EU. Today Russia/Ukraine/Belarus does the same to us, if you're entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of it.
At the same time, English is the main working language in a massive number of local technology companies[1], incl. Pipedrive, Transferwise, Starship Technologies, foreign offices of Twilio, Skype, etc. You meet well educated people from all over the EU (a lot of Spaniards, Portuguese, Swedes) and outer world (from Russia to Brazil) in the foyers of these offices. For some reason they reach Estonia with mediocre salaries by DE/SE/NL and even FI standards. Apparently, you being a tiny Eastern European country, still able to compete for talented brains, if you actually make efforts. So do efforts, don't look whom to blame.
> And as eastern europe does not have colonial past, there isn't large pool of brains that know local language and can be drained from third world to replace people who left.
LOL so what? The most ridiculous excuse I've heard. You don't have colonial past, but you have a pretty huge open bloc of well educated people all over the EU. Compete for them! And yes, this may require adjusting language and cultural requirements, just as Amsterdam is a booming international hub and pretty much an English speaking city today[2][3]. People don't learn German, Dutch, Finnish and Swedish overnight, and it's more often not really required.
> I think it's in interest of whole EU that best people stay in their countries. Instead of just sending money via cohesion funds, it should think about creating local opportunities for them.
No doubts in that, fully agreed. But it's not EU's obligation to supply your country with profitable enterprises and (say) Polish-speaking citizens. You have to make efforts to achieve this, not seeking to destroy the union for everyone else, because you couldn't.
I did not say anything about blaming/punishment of people who want to improve their life by moving to another country. Where that notion even comes from, please? Of course it is fine, I only ask about mitigating the consequences.
I so wish I could improve matters by choosing in elections...except parties/candidates I vote for regularly end up outside of government, if not completely outside of the parliament. How then can we attract competent people when we always end up with incompetent/corrupt politicans? Everyone who makes the effort in this environment, ends up burned out.
And don't let me even start about adjusting the cultural norms of general population :(
You make a fair point. I choose to engage with some particular pieces:
> Just recently a very well educated young neurosurgeon I know made the decision to leave for pursuing the postgrad in Canada and then Switzerland, both countries outside the EU (oh snap, "bad EU" is not guilty this time).
Well, where I come from, everyone leaves right about now. There is no one to take care of our old people because they make 10x as much elsewhere. There is no one to pick up our berries and our grain, because they get paid so much more doing the same thing in Germany. Romania for example, in Eastern Europe, is the 2nd country after Siria in terms of emigration rate...
Yes, UE is 'guilty' in the sense that other regions are draining the talent because for some reason, talent found no root here. The EU should create ample ground for innovation, whether we are competing internally or globally.
> How can I punish them, maybe cheer for some of their trade block to collapse? Pathetic.
Cheering for some of their trade block to collapse could be something, if it indeed benefited a large segment of the population. I find the word pathetic to be rather insulting, and somehow an indicator of your openness (or lack thereof) to conversation.
> I'd rather double-think about my domestic electoral preferences and what can I personally do to transform my country so that more people (many already do) would consider returning. I don't follow who's forcibly beating Eastern European countries with their hands and how exactly: people move all the time in all directions for better opportunities. That's how it is, people move from Finland to Sweden, from Sweden to Norway, from Norway to Germany, etc. It's fine. It provides a much larger landscape of opportunities for different population slices. The EU has made this movement much easier, but Estonians supplied Finland with labor well before joining the EU. Today Russia/Ukraine/Belarus does the same to us, if you're entrepreneurial enough to take advantage of it.
You treat all emmigration and movement of human capital as a natural consequence. We're talking levels near Syria, where they are in conflict for a decade... This is not the natural, people move in and out. It's people move out. Period. From a member state of the EU. In numbers similar to outside the EU war torn regions.
I am writing this from an enterpreneurial seat. I have businesses, employees and work in tech. I vote with my head. I am politically engaged in my local community and try to make things for the best. I create code camps and internship oportunities for young people. I get involved in state level politics. Your high horse is astounding.
> Apparently, you being a tiny Eastern European country, still able to compete for talented brains, if you actually make efforts. So do efforts, don't look whom to blame.
Efforts without context are just...
> You don't have colonial past, but you have a pretty huge open bloc of well educated people all over the EU. Compete for them!
I'm going to put this up on my wall. "Compete for them!" must be the best advice I've heard for my business in the past years...
> No doubts in that, fully agreed. But it's not EU's obligation to supply your country with profitable enterprises and (say) Polish-speaking citizens. You have to make efforts to achieve this, not seeking to destroy the union for everyone else, because you couldn't.
I can't even begin to understand how getting some things that we complain about handled would be a 'destroying the union for everyone else'. Why would we give up slaves? It would destroy industry for everyone else!
--
All in all, I think your sourced comment is both uninformed and malicious, given from a high horse without any real insights, solutions and or at least, things to build upon.
> It sounds like the EU needs deconstruction not more construction. Go back to a free trade zone, not a super government.
>> your deconstruction point is very much aligned with what I think needs to happen' currently
Let's get some facts straight. By your's "EU needs deconstruction" I read what it is: EU needs to be deconstructed. Like, gone. Or at least seriously crippled in some way. You mention migration as your prime concern, when freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights of the European Union[1] since Treaty of Rome (1957), a crucial condition of the free trade zone. So I understand this is the part you want to deconstruct first.
Well, I reject this proposition and wholeheartedly find it outrageous, to put it mildly. Initially I wanted to reply that if life in your country is so unbearable within the bloc, then you should probably rather deconstruct yourself from the EU. But I thought it was better to give arguments instead, in case I misunderstood something. Apparently I got you right.
You follow your argument with accusing me of "uninformed and malicious" opinions and "high horse" attitude, but honestly you could try your luck with finding a rapport with a Brit or American, telling them that UK needs to be deconstructed for the common good of some poor, corrupt country. Then, after an honest outrage, you're going to play a victimhood drama with high horse accusations. Amazing hypocrisy.
> All in all, I think your sourced comment is both uninformed and malicious, given from a high horse without any real insights, solutions and or at least, things to build upon.
Please spare your moral assessments of my arguments. It's perfectly fine to be a part of Frugal four[2] within the EU, but you have clearly not yet invested enough in the construction of what you intend to destroy. In my opinion you got accustomed to the non-conflict, diplomatic and lulling attitude of the EU; and enjoy playing drama when facts are presented in the direct manner.
I'm also from the Eastern European country, I run tech business for nearly 15 years. I'm politically active and do read local, European and international press. I also know exactly how people in Ukraine flee country since 2014 (not quite Syria, but two of my high-skilled SWE/SRE friends are refugees from Donbass). We had hell of a lot troubles during 90's in my region, but solution is always the same: fair courts, free elections, competitive entrepreneurship. See that you have absolutely no way to currently influence this? Well, get out of the country. Just spare your flawed life lessons, we have already gone through this, and you still have to.
I don't get why you've decided that the EU owes you "solutions" other than providing you with the same freedoms we all equally have; Balkans war is not EU's fault. Of course we (as EU) could always do better and I sincerely wish prosperity to your nation. But EU freedoms is the "thing to build upon", and it's a damn good start.
The goal of this political and economic union is to help countries develop more easily under the same dome. There's no free lunches. This means that your country has to make own efforts, and there's no way around it. EU won't elect your politicians, won't cure your poverty and corruption, won't jail all your crooks. It's your responsibility, EU is not the La-La-Land. Apparently, you don't understand where you got into and for what reason.
> I'm going to put this up on my wall. "Compete for them!"
Please do! Good competition will lead your businesses and homeland to financial success.[3]
Of course every country should do its best. Noone is contending that.
But there is small, but worrying enough probability that some countries will fail because of this emigration. And then it will be not only their but whole EU's problem. That has nothing to do with victimhood drama or us wanting EU deconstruction or whatever strawman you came up with.
> But there is small, but worrying enough probability that some countries will fail because of this emigration. And then it will be not only their but whole EU's problem.
I understand your concerns and generally sympathize with your position. I hope that we won't allow such a development of events, that no country will be squeezed out of talented people and resources. While I personally find this scenario completely unrealistic, I agree that it's important to articulate such concerns, it's an important feedback for EU.
I want to be able to freely roam/live in a safe and highly developed Eastern Europe countries. To enjoy some fancy mineral SPAs in Czech's Karlovy Vary again. To use Romanian high-quality software services, and to buy Bulgarian-produced tasty cuisine in my local Estonian grocery shop. To welcome ground breaking scientific researchers, just as I admire Hungarian scientist Katalin Karikó[1] who pioneered the mRNA research and is now VP in BioNtech. And I mean it, that's the European Union I long for.
> That has nothing to do with victimhood drama or us wanting EU deconstruction or whatever strawman you came up with.
It's not me who came up with blatant "EU needs deconstruction not more construction", take a look a couple replies above which I directly reply to. If not for this outrageous combination of words, I wouldn't even bother commenting in this thread.
Czech and Slovak rep. are world leaders in pandemic deaths recently, with the rest of the region not far behind. And it can be easily linked to lack of competent people with guts to lead. Of course, individuals can still have pleasant experiences like you describe and not notice the cracks in the system, but that does not really prove anything.
We need some massive reforms and rebuilding after this. There already was a lot of EU scepticism, and instead of taking this opportunity to shine, they completely squandered it and destroyed trust.