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There is logic. All speculative trading is driven by two motivations, fear and greed. The balance of these two decides the price.

Before this announcement the balance was about $650. It means that greedy people think it will go higher than $650, and fearful people think it would go lower.

Now comes this announcement. About 30.000 bitcoins wil sometime in July come into the hands of someone who will have paid significantly below market rate for them.

Is this good news or bad news for the market? It's bad of course. In the most optimum case, the buyer will keep the bitcoin, and the market won't move at all. In the worst case, the buyer will sell all the bitcoin the second he receives the bitcoin.

Between these two extremes there is a range of possibilities, but you can see that the range is from 0 to negative something, so overall we predict a negative outcome for the market.

So, the fearful people will become a little stronger, and the balance will drop accordingly.



Is this good news or bad news for the market? It's bad of course.

This is exactly what I meant by "you'll fool yourself into believing things that aren't true." You cannot reason about the price of bitcoin in terms of fundamentals. Not right now; not when the price is a function of a few hundred people (some of whom are maliciously manipulating the market).

I've been closely watching how the price of bitcoin reacts to announcements since mid last year. The price goes up? People come up with a reason that makes sense. The price goes down? People come up with a reason. The price has gone down; you've come up with a reason, and lo, it seems to make sense. Except none of these reasonings make any sense whatsoever because the market isn't logical. It doesn't pay any attention to your theories, or mine, or anyone else's. The price inexorably follows from the actions of fewer than a couple hundred people, almost all of whom are trying to prey off each other. That's the game. Buy to raise the price; sell after others follow your lead.

You can craft a theory that makes sense for any possible upswing or downswing. But what fools we were to think our theories mattered back in November, when the price was almost entirely due to Mt. Gox's market manipulation!

My opinion in this matter has been forged by the heavy hammer of experience. Don't make my mistake; don't delude yourself by having the hubris to think you alone can reason your way around an irrational gambler's market. Here's how it will go. You'll make some money, and you'll feel smart and elated. Then you'll risk a little bit too much on your "insight" and watch as it crumbles beneath your feet and you lose some money. But not too much; you're smart, after all. But then you'll hear stories of others who have fared Bette than you, and you'll start to get a bit jealous. It's just a matter of experience, you'll tell yourself. I'll do better now that I know not to do that again. So you'll try a new, more insightful theory. A theory based on sound fundamentals. And then you'll make a bunch of money, and you'll think you've got it all figured out. So you'll wager even more on your theory (which, somehow, everyone else has seemingly overlooked, but Nevermind that, our theory is based on logic so it must be correct!) and then when the market's irrationality catches up to your reality, you'll lose big.

Greed does indeed drive the market. And greed doesn't play by fair or logical rules.


    This is exactly what I meant by "you'll fool yourself into believing things that aren't true." You cannot reason about the price of bitcoin in terms of fundamentals.
Wherever there is perceived value, you can reason about fundamentals, it is just how the world works.

    But what fools we were to think our theories mattered back in November, when the price was almost entirely due to Mt. Gox's market manipulation!
You invested in a time of great volatility, and got hurt. That doesn't mean the game is broken. That MtGox manipulated the market is irrelevant. If something appreciates 10x in 3 months, that's volatile and it's your fault for investing when you did not know the full reason behind that volatility.

I don't say "It's bad of course" as some sort of guess, it's pure logical reasoning. I am not saying it is necessary that the balance goes down. Combine the information of the logical effect of this event with the actual effect that lies in the past and you can say that there was a likely relation.


I think you're mistaken about what a "fundamental" is. Bitcoin is speculation. It's also the kind of speculation where you'll never be able to logically deduce the expected outcome, because you'll never have the proper information to make correct decisions (unless you're friends with someone like Karpeles).

Here's an example of a fundamental:

By looking at the economics of a business, the balance sheet, the income statement, management and cash flow, investors are looking at a company's fundamentals, which help determine a company's health as well as its growth prospects. A company with little debt and a lot of cash is considered to have strong fundamentals.

There are more kinds of fundamentals, of course. But all of them have a common theme: publicly available information, or logical reasoning (which depends on having publicly available information).

Bitcoin's market value is determined by insiders who hide all information from you. Therefore, there are no fundamentals right now. Not until the price is determined by something other than people like Karpeles.

You invested in a time of great volatility, and got hurt. That doesn't mean the game is broken. That MtGox manipulated the market is irrelevant.

I doubt most investors would agree. Gamblers, perhaps, since at that point "the game" is literally gambling, not investing.


Your scenarios smells wrong to me. Why would anyone pay USD for these seized BTC, then turn around immediately and sell them for USD again? The government is the party dumping BTC on the market. The buyer presumably intends to profit. They would profit by holding until the price goes up, and selling into the market at rates that don't dominate the marketplace.


It's a basic arbitrage trade.




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