Inter alia, the USDS was notable for streamlining and fixing portions of the VA, Medicaid, and refugee processing systems. Those changes improved (and probably outright saved) large numbers of lives; it seems extremely callous to cast that aside.

Aye. Digital services aren't websites only, though websites can be involved. They are software that improves process and operational efficiency while ideally making the process more transparent.

The IRS site in general is massively better now than 5 years ago, for example.

Many people would rather see the VA and Medicaid shut down, rather than spending even more money on them to improve them.

The point is that the idea that this organization existing was an unqualified good thing is a matter of opinion, not fact.

You’re allowed to have that opinion, but presenting it as fact is the part that I have an issue with.

Nobody appears to be presenting "the VA is good" as an unalloyed fact.

By “this organization” I meant the USDS, the topic of this thread.

From TFA:

> After all, having a government that functions and delivers on its promises to the public shouldn’t be divisive.

Very sad to me that people in my peer group actually think like this. The immense human suffering that would be caused by this reckless, fatalistic path is just depressing.

I fundamentally think that fatalism and cynicism are kind of lazy positions to have.

"Oh everything is terrible and it's only going to be terrible so I don't have to do anything to improve anything and actually it's a good thing that things are terrible". It's just a justification to do nothing and wrap it with some pseudo-intellectual clothing.

I've become a grumpy cynical (and sometimes fatalistic) man as I approach middle-age, but I think a lot of that is just trying to justify my laziness most of the time.

It requires effort to care about stuff even after bad shit has happened to you. It requires effort to look for the best in situations. It requires effort to think that maybe tomorrow could be better. It's easy to just say "fuck it, I don't care".

I find it funny, because so many people proclaim these edgy fatalistic takes, and I think that they think it makes them look cool, but fundamentally it has the absolute opposite effect for me. When I see an older person who still seems to actively care about things (even though I'm sure they've been fucked over by life like the rest of us) that is cool to me.

> It requires effort to care about stuff even after bad shit has happened to you. It requires effort to look for the best in situations. It requires effort to think that maybe tomorrow could be better. It's easy to just say "fuck it, I don't care".

All of this is 100% true, but it's also incredibly draining after literal decades of being on the wrong end of abuse and hatred purely for daring to care, and hope, and try desperately to make anything even the tiniest bit better. After a point, it eventually becomes just too much effort for zero (or negative) return.

I don’t disagree, as I said I am often a cynical and fatalistic person as I have gotten older.

This is why I respect old people who seem to still manage to be stay optimistic and trusting of people in the world. I don’t think that’s “natural”, I think it’s an effort that these people put into seeing the world as a potentially good place.

> I think it’s an effort that these people put into seeing the world as a potentially good place.

Oh, the world is an absolutely amazing place. It's just a shame that only a handful of humans really seem to notice and / or care. The rest either take it for granted or want to strip-mine it for profit at any cost. :(

Regardless of your opinion on the matter, the point is the objective fact that there is not consensus on the topic.

The website seems to indicate that the government functioning well is not divisive, when in fact it is divisive as not everyone agrees with that being a good thing.

Yes, yes, but sometimes people peddle factually bad ideas in the trappings of alternative opinions, unwilling to have their ugly philosophical babies challenged under the guise of rhetorical bearings.