A bidet is standard equipment in Argentinian homes, even the poorest houses have it. Once you get used to it, it’s incomprehensible that in other countries people just wipe and…hope for the best.
But often it’s hard to install one in bathrooms that are not designed for it. So a Japanese toilet is a somewhat over the top solution in our house.
>> it’s incomprehensible that in other countries people just wipe and…hope for the best.
Well ... I don't have a bidet but doesn't mean I don't wash my buttocks after doing business. Unfortunately it's a bit of a taboo subject so it's not discussed, not taught in school / hygiene classes, just let it be.
Best example I heard from someone is this: imagine you dip your hands in Nutella. Then try to clean them just wiping with toilet paper, for more authenticity, without looking. Then look at the result, that's your ass, good thing you got underpants! Compare that with washing with soap and water!
So how do I do it?
- First step it to use wet toilet paper. I can't stand raw toilet paper, it scratches my hemorrhoids, so I pre-soak it in water from the tap if available or just water I keep in my mouth if in a public place / at work. I hate public places for this matter. This way it's much gentler for the tushy, it also pre-washes the area and third advantage, it's much less likely to clog the toilet when I flush, being already soaked.
- So after the first step I'm closer to washing Nutella than wiping it. If in a public place, that's the best I got. If at home, next step is wash my butt with soap and water in a plastic bucket. There, that's your bidet! For 2 bucks, you too can get one! :) Sure, you have to squat and not wear any pants, but you're in your own freaking bathroom. Dry with paper towels which you throw in a bucket. Plus, comes the third step anyway and you won't be wearing any clothes for that.
- Third step is taking a quick shower. At this point you won't be leaving a trail of poo into the shower drain or bath tub (I shower in the bath tub) but still get to clean your general areas that were in contact with the toilet, hence e-coli and sh*t (no pun intended), plus shower feels good.
So there's that: my overly complicated toilet routine that takes some 3 minutes extra after finishing with the toilet proper, which leaves me perfectly adequate for entering a pool. Unfortunately I also know that 99.98% of the population entering said pool has their Nutella butt washed for the first time in said pool, so no pools for me if I can avoid it.
> just water I keep in my mouth if in a public place / at work
Sorry for intruding, but the water from some public place is the last thing I want in my or anyone else's mouth. May I suggest a water bottle or even a flask?
Or if you already tried that, can you explain why it didn't work for you? Just an idle curiosity. Thanks in advance.
I interpreted this to mean he holds clean water (e.g. from a bottle) in his mouth when entering the toilet, for the purpose of wetting toilet paper. A clever solution, IMO.
No, this is exactly the problem: "we mustn't speak of buttholes, it is preferable that we all continue sub-par hygiene practices because it's TABBOOOOOOO"
Every bathroom in Thailand and Argentina is built with a drain in the floor. It's forward thinking construction. Otherwise, without the drain, either the bum gun or the bidet can and will easily damage the floor and anything below it.
It seems wild to me you'd have a bathroom without a general floor drain? Like it's a room where we put water taps...a floor drain just makes sense (and you already need to put plumbing in for floor drains to have like, a shower work).
How can a wet room floor like toilet or barhroom be damaged? They have to be specific type of concrete + tiles on top, don't they? At least that's what I'm used to.
Standard equipment in Argentina, not in Northern Europe or the US, where you would have to be in the opportunity to completely redo your bathroom to accommodate it. Otherwise you need to rearrange, or go for a Japanese toilet.
Completely redo a bathroom? The barrier to entry is replacing the seat with one that connects to the existing waterline. I've got one and it took 10 minutes to install - and 5 of those were just cleaning first.
For the spray nozzle sure. It would only work in particularly hot climates though, so maybe Arizona and Florida in the summer. There is a reason northern Asia goes without or with heated Japanese toilets instead (they also warm the water so you don’t hate yourself).
Bidet (no hand sprayer, just a toilet seat based jet) works fine in this US household. I don’t notice the cold in the winter. Maybe I have an exceptionally robust asshole, but our water gets very cold in the winter.
Do you have decent central heating? Japanese households didn’t (and still don’t, it’s not required by law even in Tokyo), so heated toilet seats and heated water is considered essential. There is a reason kotatsus never caught in the states I guess. You won’t encounter nozzles in southern China either because the winters are too cold and they have even less heating than northern China (which is why everyone is wearing winter jackets indoors).
Even in the US, I can’t imagine installing a nozzle here in Seattle, but we also don’t have central heat (just a heat pump with remote units in a couple of rooms).
> we also don’t have central heat (just a heat pump
I'm so terminologically confused at this point by comments like this. In Texas, many people's central heat is a heat pump. My current house's heater is the first I've lived at in over forty years that wasn't a heat pump (this one is gas). High end homes, cheap rentals, everything in between, heat pump central heating.
Ductless heat pump (aka mini split) you need indoor units to serve each room that the heat pump handles. We have one in our master bedroom and in our open living room kitchen, but not on the bottom floor (kid bedroom/office, and our master bath really isn’t heated well by our master bedroom indoor unit, so it has a separate wall heater that doesn’t have a thermostat so we never use it. So our bathroom is a bit cold in the winter, although it’s Seattle so never really that cold, although my wife avoids the toilet for the one in the living room since it bothers her more.
So…is a ductless mini split heat pump supplemented by a bunch of resistive walk heaters, one gas fireplace, and no central thermostat really considered central heating?
In China, this becomes even more pronounced, northern cities provide central heating from heating plants…so central means “central” in a much stronger sense. Apartments are poorly insulated from each other so it makes little sense to heat each unit separately. In southern China (and lots of older Japanese housing), you don’t even have good insulation so all your heating is localized (eg via a kotatsu and heated toilet seat, or heated train seats which are really nice). That is a lot less centralized than a minisplit (which are catching on in southern China these days as well).
I use a non-heated bidet in Truckee, California (near lake Tahoe). In the winter the water that comes out is cold, but it's only for a few seconds, so I just grin and bear it.
Ideally you need nearby electrical and ability to get water to the washlet seat. Which is fairly easy/cheap in a bathroom remodel (which is what I did) but not necessarily easy/cheap otherwise. (There are simpler ways you can get part-way there as noted in this thread.)
The washlet needs power for the seat warmer (and other functions). Toto (and others) also have unpowered add-on toilet seat type that just sprays and is manually controlled with a knob. https://in.toto.com/product-category/ecowasher/ (Not sure if this is available in the US)
Because the Japanese implementation is electro-mechanical. The nozzle auto-cleans and deploy from the big end like a fighter jet refueling boom with press of a button, sometimes on a control panel, sometimes via an IR remote.
Things get interesting when the remote dies in the middle of the ordeal or the stop button could not be immediately located.
Except for the no-power versions, electricity is required for bidet functions on Toto bidets. They work like normal industrial hydraulics. They have a small low-power electric pilot valve, which lets hydraulic pressure into the right place to move the boom in and out, and release water.
There are models that don't require electricity, but the higher end ones (that do) will heat the water before hit hits your butt, and also might have a heated seat as well as other features.
FYI for anyone that uses wet wipes: please don't. If you have to, ignore any marketing they have about the wipes being flushable. They absolutely are not, and cause major issues for sanitation operators. Even the ones labeled septic safe really aren't, from what I understand the 'septic safe' marketing just refers to them not containing chemicals that will poison a septic system. They don't break down in a septic system like paper will.
Less environmentally friendly and greatly more damaging to the infrastructure. Spain is even looking to introduce legislation to reduce/remove their use[0].
That link talks about plastic items, but the wet wipes I’m familiar with are 100% plant-based and biodegradable, and dissolve in water.
Edit, to clarify: The wipes in question have been certified according to the EDANA Flushability Guidelines, which have been adopted into law in some countries, and there is also a related Spanish standard UNE 149002:2019 (“Acceptance criteria for disposable products via toilet”). The producer (Essity) claims that they dissolve similarly quickly to regular toiled paper.
It might very well be that the wipes still cause problems, but it’s not like these are plastic items that are flushed down the toilet in an unregulated way.
There was a news article on Australia a few years ago about these wet wipes that were advertised as biodegradable and dissolved in water, but they were either outright lies or they didn't degrade / dissolve in anywhere near the timeframe that made them suitable for flushing down the toilet - hence an increase in the fatberg problem.
The news article was essentially a public service announcement to not flush those wet wipes unless you want a sewerage problem down the line.
And I read a study a while back that researched this, and analyzed several fatberg deposits. They concluded that there was no trace of biodegradable wipes. And that follows purchasing patterns--99.9% of those bought aren't the biodegradable kind. People just don't care and continue to flush wipes, diapers, fats, cat litter, and who knows what else.
That situation is such a mess. Those dissolving wipes actually exist, and actually dissolve.
So what do people do? They buy the cheap, non-dissolving ones and flush them anyway. Then when they inevitably clog, they call the plumber and insist they bought the correct ones when asked. So now there's widespread confusion about whether the dissolving ones work.
At least in the US, the “plant-based”, “biodegradable”, sewer or septic safe wet wipes are anything but sewer and septic safe. They cause such problems that in my town with older sewers there are huge fines if you’re tracked down flushing them.
No, it’s all lies. Wet wipes don’t break down, no matter what these companies tell you. I’d rather listen to whatever your municipality is telling you.
I would love to know which wipes those are, because I have never come across any that are even remotely actually dissolvable. If you know of a brand, I really would like to know which that is. Have you ever tried putting one in some water just to see how dissolvable they are?
There is also that they’re kind of a contradiction in terms anyways, they’re wet … wipes. If they were dissolvable in water, the wetness of the wipes would cause dissolvement.
What many people are not even aware of is that even all high end toilet paper in the USA is a major headache for sewer systems because even that “paper” does not dissolve well at all, because they’re so focused on making the “paper” feel soft or be durable, it’s technically not even paper anymore and actually more like a cellulose felt.
Spain has a hard time figuring out how to get their sewage system to handle regular toilet paper and many regions/places require you to deposit the toilet paper in trash cans next to the toilet. That being said, I think there are better options like a clever public awareness campaign, banning the claim of being flushable, required packaging that says not to flush, requiring to be packaged with plastic bags for disposal, or even just accumulating all the costs of issues from the wipes and charge them to the industry as a whole in various taxes and fees, which will push the incentive to solve the problem on the industry.
I used to use wet wipes and flushed them, now I have a bidet and have only ever used wet wipes when traveling, where, ironically, Spain’s issues with basic things like flushing toilet paper, make disposing/not flushing wet wipes easy because many bathrooms have a lidded trash can next to the toilet/in the stall.
Ironically, their bigger issues produce a solution to a different, bigger problem.
Note: Yes, I’m aware it’s not everywhere in Spain or only Spain, but I am curious to hear where everywhere everyone has encountered having to put their toilet paper on a trash can instead of flushing.
I don’t think Americans are using wet wipes on their toilet business, at least in any meaningful numbers, maybe parent was talking about some other region of the world? There are plenty of regions of the world where TP is the norm, eg in China you aren’t going to find sprayers or Japanese style toilet seats, and many toilets are still squats.
It does not solve the same problem. The same way the majority of people prefer to wash their hand at a faucet with soap and water. They might put up with a wet wipe when they are near a faucet but it doesn't "solve the same problem". At best it's a temporary solution until you get to a place where you can really wash.
But often it’s hard to install one in bathrooms that are not designed for it. So a Japanese toilet is a somewhat over the top solution in our house.