This is the death of the hacker. We have allowed new heights of power and unchecked control decide they know better than us. We are no longer allowed or trusted to make choices in our best interests. Many practice apologetics for why this is necessary, pointing to Apple and Mozilla, as if that doesn’t make this change any less devastating. It was a great run.
The silver lining is it can be the birth of a new generation of hackers. This generation’s version of the printer inspiring those who refuse to accept the hostile hand they’ve been dealt. Tech doesn’t have to be this way. You don’t have to accept these changes. Rebel! Start hacking away. Don’t join these companies. Found new ones that prioritize valuing users first forever. It’s a difficult task. But all difficult tasks we’ve solved were.
Do you think ads are ethical? For a relevant example, how about an Apple ad that successfully uses emotion to convince you to buy a Mac instead of a Linux computer that would better suit your needs at a better price hypothetically?
Fair enough! I stand on the side that the current ad landscape in the US gravitates towards convincing us to buy things we don’t need and consume more. And normally using manipulative tactics. For example, ads in the car industry that sell a lifestyle that convinces people to buy large pick up trucks they don’t need at costs they can’t actually afford.
I’m not sure it’s worth answering the question because to me it almost feels like a straw man in the sense that it’s disconnected from the current reality. I think running a movie trailer before another movies plays and putting up movie posters around the theater is fair play. It’s within the same context and is actually advertising an entertainment product. Further, people go out of their way to watch movie trailers on YouTube.
However, the majority of ads I’m discussing don’t adhere to that. Overall, people are pretty good about finding out about things! If it’s really desired, some will seek it out. Others will learn via word of mouth. Steam is a good example I think where people find games without having to see ads on TV, online, or other areas.
IMHO, something like "Show HN" is not much different than an ad. In some sense, neither is your resume. They are all about letting people know about options. But I can understand that those can be more contextual than other ads.
Show HN is a great example to bring up! I often find the hacky projects a lot more valuable and worth my time than the ones that are clear adverts.
HN can obviously be gamed, but I think when people ask or share tools they use to solve certain problems, that demonstrates a desire to discover something new showing that there are ways to discover valuable tools without ads. That type of discovery is a lot different from an ad on Instagram for a drop ship company advertising its US roots while repackaging cheap Chinese manufactured products. In the latter example, I feel the ad exists entirely to sell something that is completely unneeded rather than to inform about something the person genuinely could find valuable.
> In the latter example, I feel the ad exists entirely to sell something that is completely unneeded rather than to inform about something the person genuinely could find valuable.
Ironically, this is why "targeted ads" are (in theory) beneficial to both sides. Companies certainly would love to sell you their product -- whether you want it or not. But advertisers would rather show ads to people who will want their product (versus those that don't). This is why Instagram is a powerful platform: it knows a lot about you.
The common privacy concern (which is real, but sometimes overstated) is that the more the advertisers know about you, the worse it is. But "Show HN" is kinda the opposite. That's why you like it more.
In any case, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I personally see ads as a component of commerce. I'm willing to pay to see fewer ads (like Youtube premium) because I value my time. But I accept that websites that earn money from ads deserve to have them seen.
I get what you’re saying, but I definitely think we just view things from different perspectives. To me targeted ads signal consumerism when I think at a certain point you’ve gotta be happy with what you have. Perhaps a targeted ad can know you need to replace a broken coffee maker. But how would it know yours broke, and why can’t you repair the coffee maker yourself?
When you let marketing run things, you get what’s currently happening with Apple. A decline in software quality alongside products designed to be replaced more frequently than they need to be. It’s worse for consumers as well as the environment.
I certainly align with you on paying for YouTube premium to avoid ads. I’m perfectly happy to pay for goods and services. I just wish I could traverse my city without seeing billboards crammed everywhere and someone always trying to sell me something. It’s a wonder why I enjoy The Rolling Stones’ Satisfaction so much haha.
There is an implicit agreement that using those websites (for free) means you watch ads. I think: if you don't agree with that, then you shouldn't go to those sites.
We complain about "enshitification" -- but then we take away all potential sources of revenue (and refuse to pay). So the only companies that can provide "free" services are ones that are already monetizing you in other ways.
The silver lining is it can be the birth of a new generation of hackers. This generation’s version of the printer inspiring those who refuse to accept the hostile hand they’ve been dealt. Tech doesn’t have to be this way. You don’t have to accept these changes. Rebel! Start hacking away. Don’t join these companies. Found new ones that prioritize valuing users first forever. It’s a difficult task. But all difficult tasks we’ve solved were.