I am US Citizen living in CA, while also have lived (and am citizen) of other 3 countries, Canada as one prior to US. To remind all, Michael Moore's Sicko documentary is huge misrepresentation of how good socialized HC is, while it did point huge issues with the current privatized/greed-based private US HC with crooked HC+insurance industry.
So as not all is BW, from my experience with Canadian HC, socialization of the health-care system shall produce the following:
1. significantly lower the quality of services (same or lower number of staff, material, equipment serving higher number of people)
2. waiting lists shall start appearing slowly and then progress over the years
3. HC shall deteriorate slowly (look at the UK and many other countries)
4. Extended/add-on/"bridge" HC shall become popular to fill in the gaps for the working people who demand at least better minimum (in Canada this is the norm, where typical Canadian pays just for this add-on HC similar per paycheck amount as US employer for the whole today's HC!)
Populist government "figures" shall play any card to live for another day and "please voters" including "changing realities" or avoiding the real "put all on the table and have open conversation" approach.
> socialization of the health-care system shall produce the following [...]
It should also produce better health outcomes for the people living there. Maybe you have a well-paid job and good insurance plan, and can enjoy good healthcare now, but that is not the case for many others and can change for you if you are unlucky.
Even a very poor country like Cuba has higher life expectancy than the US. Most developed countries have better health outcomes than the US, while spending way way less on healthcare.
There may be deeper causes for this beyond the privatized healthcare system in the US, such as the legalized political corruption (lobbying, PAC's) and litigation law leading to huge overhead costs in everything. These will be even harder to change.
We can moralize 2nd but fundament is always numbers.
To remind ~150K earners pay ~50% of CA taxes.
Let that sit in your mind 1st, then ask yourself if ~1/2 of those flee to where it is better for them, the effect is and can only be either or both; worsening of health care and/or further raising the taxes. This is known effect that happens.
Major HighTech companies are disincentivized and are already taking difficult decision. The question is when the avalanche effect happens? If it happens or if it is gradual race to the socialist bottom, then you can moralize 'til the cows come home, but guess what they won't be coming back.
Silicon Valley CAN become Detroit and it is already on initial phases of the path in that direction, although still far. Capacity of derangement of the CA government is not yet reached and ~70% Blue is not making any constructive dialogue to balance things here.
I am high earner and for a while I can bear still ok health care here and then I could enjoy early retirement (i.e. freedom 55) with this new socialized HC while it is still "ok". After a while I guarantee it will go worse and even I will be forced to re-evaluate and possibly move.
> We can moralize 2nd but fundament is always numbers.
So you think it is moralizing to take people and fairness as the fundament? I certainly prefer that over numbers, if that makes me moralizing then so be it.
What you are implying is that you think the janitor (not an employee of course) of that hightech company who can't afford insurance does not deserve treatment when she gets hit by cancer. Paying for that would be too disincentivizing for the employees and shareholders, and the company should consider moving to another place that is more considerate of its needs.
I think the whole idea of poor people getting the same healthcare as rich people is really what is putting off many people in the US. Even if it would be better for everyone and have no downsides at all, it would still face opposition.
You are totally right, I've also heard the same thing from the many Canadians I've been friends with over the years as well as my family in the UK.
I don't know if most people realize it, but there is definitely a tradeoff between 100% equal access and quality. But it does seem that's a tradeoff that many people want to make so idk
No, most people do now know this.
Michael Moore's Sicko movie did good criticism of the current dysfunctional US HC and it is even worse than that. Government is not doing the job to "govern" to fight monopolies, greed and outright corruption and Medical Industrial Complex has Washington swamp in their pocket (together with other monopolies mafias). So, US is increasingly dysfunctional and there will be consequences from that up to possibly fall of the whole "western civilization" (US+Eu+UK) and 1st chaos, then multipolar opportunistic world.
People vote for "short term sales pitch" instead of what is optimal and right for long term and their kids and grandkids. Key factors are missing:
- Political manipulation is dominant.
- Fact, logic rational based dialogue is vanishing. (i.e. indirectly and directly stimulated by interests, so left does not talk to right and any rational thought is attacked/labeled/censored and anyone who provides criticism of any or both sides in different ways is painted/pushed "polarized" often each side paints such people both ways whatever suits them, so echo chamber effect gets amplified until the system blows up).
- People, through generations, are conditioned to be driven by emotions vs face logic/facts/rational. This starts from the early age kids conditioning them into 'ideal consumers' (some call this "idiots" and I understand it but it will be hard to wake them up by reason only, as past tells the only unfortunate way to wake up is catastrophe/calamity/hinger/war)
I can tell a lot of information to anyone that can be add on to Michael's Moore documentary and can paint the complex truth. It is not black and white at all and from my long life experience, best would be to fix the current US HC by breaking monopolies and unfair practices (such as price gauging, etc,...) and this could get US to way better HC than any socialized system can be. But my predictions is that "populism hustling" in the atmosphere of forbidden rational dialogue and political hustlers will go worse direction. I guess it is that 4th degenerative phase of the empire, where "soul&spirit" of the people's mind falls (obvious all around us). I just hope US does not go the way of Balkan.
So as not all is BW, from my experience with Canadian HC, socialization of the health-care system shall produce the following: 1. significantly lower the quality of services (same or lower number of staff, material, equipment serving higher number of people) 2. waiting lists shall start appearing slowly and then progress over the years 3. HC shall deteriorate slowly (look at the UK and many other countries) 4. Extended/add-on/"bridge" HC shall become popular to fill in the gaps for the working people who demand at least better minimum (in Canada this is the norm, where typical Canadian pays just for this add-on HC similar per paycheck amount as US employer for the whole today's HC!)
Populist government "figures" shall play any card to live for another day and "please voters" including "changing realities" or avoiding the real "put all on the table and have open conversation" approach.