Culturally, it's my feeling that funerals are not for the dead, they are for the living, and this is a way for the dead to cut into the lives of people who now get to move on.
The "zing" element of it is just a way for someone to be hurtful to people who can never have closure on that...
On the flip side - not everyone is cynical, they may say some of the things they had a hard time saying when they were alive, affirmations that maybe made them uncomfortable, or admitting wrongs that may have been too difficult to do when alive.
I'd hope that a service like this would be thoughtful, and pensive, and think of those who are left behind as a primary focus.
Edit: and this is all possibly moot as it sounds like this person isn't even real (I get that this is speculation, but I'm just sharing it because I agree, this story is questionable): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24427464
>and this is a way for the dead to cut into the lives of people who now get to move on.
this is why I absolutely love this, it has a Diogenic quality. I've always really disliked how churches and funerals lull people with their bog-standard speeches and an hour after the funeral everyone's bickering about the news or who gained ten pounds of weight.
A death is a great opportunity to shock people out of their everyday stupor, and when my grandfather died who was always somewhat of a trickster, he asked to put a recorder into the coffin with a sort of knocking sound that should play when he was lowered into the grave. Obviously everyone completely freaked out and half of the people were mad but I laughed my ass off.
I think this is life affirming and when you can shock some people and have something they ought to be reminded of a funeral's the time to do it, they'll probably remember it for a long time.
I don’t disagree, and I think if a person does this on their own it’s great, I think that as a business, this kind of thing could be pathological involving folks who aren’t as awesome as your grandfather, and I assume your family was fully aware of his mischievous nature.
Playing a practical joke is great, your grandfather sounds awesome.
On the other hand outing someone this way is shitty. It is what a coward does.
> it has a Diogenic quality
Diogenes had the hutzpah to call people on their crap when he was alive. To me, his purported opinion of his burial was not meant to lash out, but to show us the reality of death.
> The "zing" element of it is just a way for someone to be hurtful to people who can never have closure on that...
I agree on this, it's unfortunate that the article focuses on that story first... towards the end, it mentions other stories that are more wholesome (e.g. the story about the wife who left messages around the house for his surviving husband to find) but I guess that unfortunately negativity "sells" better.
Edit - nowadays, considering our shortened attention span, that editorial choice is even more unfortunate (as opposed to 20-30 years ago when news consumption happened offline and in a different fashion - and probably a higher percentage of readers would end up reading the whole article).
I found the idea of letting some people know they were not welcome at the funeral very powerful. There's no simple way to communicate this while alive, and no way to police it while dead. But this works. In my last days I might appreciate knowing that if two-faced rival X dared to show up they would be chased out of town AND that those I loved knew it was important to me. This is for the living and the dead.
One of my first "startups" was basically this as a service in 2006 [1] and the Houston Chronicle did a brief story on it under "Get the Message" in 2007[2].
The idea was basically that anyone could pay to get any message delivered anonymously using our service as a cut out [3].
1. Client pays UCC to send a message of their choosing
2. UCC Contractor delivers message and sends proof and any response, back to UCC
3. UCC sends client the proof and any response
This was pre-smart phone, pre-gig economy, pre-easy payments and was done with me hiring random people off of craigslist as messengers and taking messages from emails.
I think someone could actually turn this into a real service today for really cheap. Probably doesn't scale though.
I made a service (https://www.deadmansswitch.net) back in 2008 to do the same. You write a few emails to your loved ones, then the service checks up on you every so often. If you never reply, it sends the messages.
Much cheaper than sending someone to crash a funeral, but also much less dramatic.
More dramatic if you're ADHD and get excited about finally having a way to tell everyone about all shitty things you've done because your impulse control is shot, so you sign up for it relieved that you'll finally be able to get it all off your chest in a way that doesn't trigger your rejection sensitivity dysphoria only to be absolutely mortified some months later when you're secrets are spilled while you're still alive because you got the email and thought oh yeah I need to reply to that but there are only two times in your mind "now" and "not now" and because it's usually "not now" you put it off subsequently forgetting altogether and then boom.
That sounds non-ideal, but, if it helps, there's a Telegram bot feature where all you have to do is open the notification and click a button, and you have to not do that like four times over two months before the messages are sent.
I think the best way to set it up is, after you've failed to respond several times (maybe because your spam filter changed our something) it then seems a preliminary email to all those on your list. "Is this person really dead? If not, get him to log in... etc"
Some might deliberately choose to click that you're dead, in the hopes of seeing the message, but likely your spouse or whoever would be, like, "Honey, this thing says you're dead..."
And if none of them answer, because it went to their junk or they're all dead by now, then it's moot because they're exactly the people who would have seen anything.
Probably should have some sort of “m of n” condition to prevent the mischievous/malicious from doing it.
Alternatively, the dead man switch service could generate a secret link that you copy into your will, and your executor clicks it to trigger the process (which may still email you or others to confirm that you are dead)?
I kinda feel there’s some interesting fiction to be written around this...
But then you have a situation where either those n people have to know about and opt in to this deal which leaves them wondering what your secrets are and just knowing that people were thinking about it would drive my crazy or you have a situation where people get an email totally out of the blue saying that someone they know is dead and click this link to find out their secrets. I would mark that as spam and delete it instantly. Some people would just click cos they are like what the hell is this about. Almost zero people will take it as a serious instruction to be dutifully followed.
Interestingly most throwaway accounts I see with throwaway in their name aren't green, so I think those people must have just kept their "throwaway" account?
Juesus. Um, just don't sign up for the service in the first place if you're incapable of replying to the check up emails? That seems really obvious. And this is coming from someone severely ADHD. I know I would never be able to keep up with a system like that so I would never sign up for it.
You know... I didn't always used to know why I am the way I am. And before I did, I believed I should just be able to do things and never realized just absolutely abysmal my impulse control is, so this is the kind of thing that would catch me out.
These days I know to avoid things like this for the reasons stated.
I'm trying it now. Other than making my heart jump out of my chest occasionally I don't really understand what it does. It doesn't seem to actually _do_ anything for or to me. I understand that happens to about 20% of people, so I'm just going to try work my way through the available options to see if anything works.
Used to self-medicate with copious amounts of coke, pepsi and red bull and fast food. Bit of a mixed bag that.
Actually on the subject of secrets and coke, I stole like 200 cans of it from a place that used the honor system. I needed my fix and couldn't stop myself from doing it. Always confused me why I behaved that way and why I couldn't stop. When I got diagnosed a lot of things like that just started to make sense.
I was given medication as a kid and this was my experience as well, I’m personally not convinced it helps.
What does help me quite a lot (ordered by effectiveness):
Regular daily exercise (this one is surprisingly effective)
Avoiding certain foods (sugar, red dye)
Having at least some moderately mindful side project (building kits, reconfiguring your wm, working on OSS etc.) I play ukulele, but I would call noodling mindless so be careful with that
Avoiding mindless stuff like YouTube/reddit/HN (heh)
Getting dragged off to actually go do things by eg your girlfriend (I feel bad because I’m usually upset at her when she does this, but I’ve told her many times that it does actually help me, that must be confusing.)
IMO: if you let yourself be impulsive it puts you in an impulsive mood and makes giving in easier, I’m not saying this stuff is perfect but it’s the best I’ve found.
Interesting! Different things work for different people.
Though having said that, exercise and good sleep hygiene are almost universal panaceas for almost any mental or physical problem one might have.
They might not cure you, but they sure help make almost anything at least slightly easier to bear.
I only got diagnosed with ADHD at age 30, and was already doing exercise etc. Some low dose medication really helped me. Including giving me the mental spare capacity to tick off more of the other items on your list.
> you got the email and thought oh yeah I need to reply to that but there are only two times in your mind "now" and "not now" and because it's usually "not now" you put it off subsequently forgetting altogether and then boom.
Well, if you have a life long history of persistent problems relating to education, finance, health, and/or relationships caused by behavior impulsive or otherwise that you just can't quite seem to explain then maybe.
Unfortunately the condition is just pernicious enough to do real damage to your life, and just subtle enough to go unnoticed for decades.
Are you still running this service? It appears from the site to still be running. I had a similar idea to this a while ago and I'm glad to see someone built it.
I... don't believe this? Maybe parts of it are based in truth, but the explanation for not doing it as a video feels weak to me. I feel like most people would want him to show a video, not disrupt it himself? It feels like a fantasy.
There's almost nothing online about him other than his interviews, and all of a sudden this week numerous articles about him separately popping up? Something feels a bit off.
It's almost like it's becoming true because it's been printed? He can now go make a show or sell the service to people or whatever, and when people say "is this true?" he can point to all the articles about it as proof. It doesn't matter if it's true anymore, because now there's enough sources that it's fact.
I believe there’s a business registered... in fact, that’s the point, right? This is an ad.
The name was changed only a few months ago. Before that, the company name was Freedom from Debt Collectors.
Like I said, I’m sure there’s a bit of truth in this. And I’m 100% sure he’ll take someone’s money to show up at a funeral. I just feel like somethings off in general.
Its because its likely a reprint of a pre-packaged ad/media release that's doing the rounds dressed up as news/an article.
From one of the original articles from the gold-coast:
"The extraordinary story of a Gold Coast private detective paid to gatecrash funerals and tell uncomfortable truths is to be made into an ‘emotional and confronting’ TV series."
They even managed to get the story run by our national broadcaster, which is SUPPOSED to be ad/marketing free, but these days shrug, just dress it up as an article and its on for young and old...
Yeah, people should be aware that Newsweek magazine has itself died and been brought back. It’s just a name at this point, I don’t think it retained any editors or writers from its earlier incarnations.
> Newsweek has the name and the professional website it has built in years past, but it’s increasingly repurposing the work of others—whether the Washington Post, the outrage fiends at Fox News, or a dozen people on Twitter—and packaging it as its own. Plenty of news sites aggregate, and in many ways the story of Newsweek is the story of the industry. But whereas other aggregators—Mashable, BuzzFeed, Upworthy; the list goes on—built their sites around this kind of internet-first strategy, Newsweek is selling off its own legacy while hoping that readers won’t notice.
Yeah, by the time I got to the third story I was waiting to read 'and then everybody clapped.' historically people use their executor to do this sort of stuff.
Someone writes these things for a target audience, which believes this. His atrocious compensation, all these well-crafted, small, interesting (though: somewhat predictable) turns. The style is called "Belletristic", I'd say. I am not sure what the goal is: To sell the story, itself (add supported to millions, e.g.) or to find very few customers, which actually spend, what is described in the story as a reasonable compensation for "crushing" a funeral and saying a few words and... god forbid... not doing something wrong, even if requested, such as murdering dogs, because we all know... wish: We get the very good money for (just) doing good (and sticking to our principles and virtues, even against our customer/boss)... truth be told: Life can be different and much harder.
I'd think a lot less of the deceased after a display like this. Their best friend may-or-may-not have wanted to sleep with their wife but whatever, leave me out of it. I'm trying to pay my respects and mourn a friend, not get caught up in some love triangle.
Of course the deceased could also have lied for reasons best known to themselves. The 'best mate' is not in the best condition to defend themselves if it turned out the deceased was delusional.
Agreed. It just seems like a dick thing to do (assuming the impact is negative).
You’re dead. Your opinions don’t matter any more. You don’t even get the satisfaction of spilling the beans, because, well, you’re dead.
Sure, maybe nobody will know your wife cheated on you. But that’s ok, because you’re dead. Why bring more pain to the living?
Now, if you were have someone crash the funeral to tell your spouse how much you loved them. Great, nice idea.
But the vindictive examples seem like a complete waste of time and only hurt people. Especially putting the gay biker (apparently not everyone knew)). Great friend he turned out to be.
This is some wack logic. If I murdered you and stole your car, would you mind if I got away with the crime? What's that, you'd be upset? Doesn't matter, you're dead.
Obviously you don't get that satisfaction when you are dead. That's why this guy's job exists. He lets you get that satisfaction before you die.
Message boards may operate on similar principals. I get the satisfaction of communicating my point as I write this, even though I don't know who if anyone may read it.
Right? No matter how you go out, just put an envelope taped to the fridge with "IF I DIE" written in big letters on the front and be done with it. Why rely on some flaky big tech solution to this?
The scenario of the gay biker is much more likely to get the desired message across to the intended audience than a letter. If the family or friends that visited his empty home were hostile to gays or deemed it inappropriate, they may have just quietly concealed the letter.
Christopher Hitchens published an article shortly before his demise to reassure people of his views on atheism, lest any clergy or family get the urge to fabricate the good news of his deathbed conversion. For those of us that aren't writers for Vanity Fair a service like this could be useful.
It shows that the deceased took life and the living for granted. The deceased had a whole lifetime to say such things, and in the end they were such a coward that they would literally rather die than live a true, honest, authentic life.
Yeah. There is empathy in “Speaker for the Dead” compared to “confessor” that sounded negative. May be it doesn’t sound negative to people following certain religions as confession is a way to absolve themselves.
Yeah, if he can I would use that over "Coffin Confessor". There is a clear difference in what he is doing verse in the books.
To anyone that doesn't get the reference, the book "Speaker for the Dead" is the next book after Ender's Game and in my opinion is the best book in the series.
Even for those who haven't read any of the series but the first one (eg me), "Speaker for the Dead" is a job/title that the protagonist of Ender's Game takes up at the end of the book.
Yes, I thought of it immediately. I've even officiated a funeral and tried to do the best I could to really actually speak for the dead. It was an experience.
I found the first few examples very sad. How miserable of a person do you have to be if you’ve been given a death sentence (illness probably) and spend the little time and energy you have left plotting drama at your own funeral, so that a third party can shame and expose the people who are attending your funeral??
I also think it’s unfair of the second example to come out as gay and also name his lover at the funeral. I’m guessing this was a secret because that particular bike club wasn’t very open minded, the deceased doesn’t care because now he’s gone but his lover probably does very much care but now he’s burned.
I really hope that if I’m ever in this situation i can focus on being grateful and spend my time on much more positive things as I’m dying rather than revenge beyond the grave.
I also just finished reading Eugene o’kelly’s book (chasing daylight) on his last 100 days between when he finds out he has terminal brain cancer and only three months left to live, and how he is doing everything he can to have the beat time of his life while also making it easier for his whole family and friends to deal with his death. Quite a contrast from the story in the article and much much more positive.
Not necessarily, but think about it: you’re given a month left to live. 30 days. Does it make any sense to spend time and energy being bitter and angry, and spend some of that time on people you dislike so that you can get revenge after you’re dead (and thus won’t even be around to see)? In my opinion, you have to be miserable to even entertain the possibility vs spending all the time you have enjoying yourself and saying goodbye to the people you actually do love.
There was a English politician who committed crimes with a partner, and then feuded with him.
He wrote a book describing their joint activities, and had his son publish it after his passing, so as to embarrass the former friend.
When he died, this politician was greatly respected. After the book came out, it made him seem so crass, petty and vengeful, that his reputation was completely shattered.
It was so bad that another famous man - I think Churchill - said that this was the first case he knew of a man committing suicide posthumously.
If anyone can give names, would appreciate it. But I bet a service like this will offer many more the ability to accidentally destroy themselves after their death.
There is a long tradition of political deathbed "conversions." Politicians taking positions opposed to popular opinion or politically structural norms after their political careers are over.
It is craven by definition, but it is what it is. Unspokeness exists because there are pressures. It is naive to think that politicians do not hold opinions that they keep to themselves to some extent. Such is politics. People too, not just politicians.
In a US context (not american, but I guess US politics is our lingua franca) Eisenhower's military-industrial complex speech is the prime example. Even firm "peace candidates" of american politics (then and today) do not generally address the economic aspects of military policy.
Now that we're in the $trn corporation era, there may be eisenhower speeches from former CEOs and such. I'd be curious to hear Jack Dorsey's opinions, once he's removed from direct interest.
So... the desire, the tendency exists. Speaking from the grave has an added romantic element. I think I'm "pro" on this coffin confessions thing. There are certainly downsides, the potential to unload negativity which can never be moderated. But, I think the act of uploading such a confession is likely to have consequences before death. I'd be curious to know how many edits these get, on average.
This article reminded me of some odd traditions surrounding death.
There is apparently a tradition in some cultures, now largely vanished, known as the “sin eater.” It goes beyond a religious deathbed confession in that the sin eater hears the worst sins, and takes on the weight of those sins, in return for a fee. It occurred in parts of the UK and India, but died out in the 1800s.
Another is more modern, prompted or resurrected by the science fiction novel Speaker for the Dead by Orson Scott Card. The author claimed that people were adapting the ceremony featured in the novel to their own deaths.
OP here, sorry for that. Usually I don't post links that do that, but apparently my adblocker removes that modal automatically so I didn't even realise it was there.
No? I think of at least one 19th Century short story from high school that had aspects of this, less the deceased leaving someone to speak for him, than a friend more or less volunteering. And one could regard it as a slight modification of the will-reading scenes in many Victorian novels.
So much for 'dead men tell no tales'. Personally I don't see the point of this sort of thing. Why hurt people after you're gone? Do it when you're still alive and can share the burden of the truth.
> My client was knocking on death's door and he was not going to have the strength to say or do these things himself, but he really felt empowered through knowing I would be able to do what I did.
If my brother tried to sleep with my wife and I couldn't forgive him, there's no reason to worry myself with telling him that when I'm alive. Not everything is worth talking about or forgivable, in my experience, people universally avoid tough conversations
Some of those stories are not at all about hurting people feelings. For example the story of the woman who left messages to her husband was heartwarming.
The number is probably derived from his PI services. It also seems like a good enough number to filter out most of the pranksters. I'd fork over a hundred bucks to have someone "confess" at my funeral about some really outlandish swashbuckling lifestyle just for laughs. I'd only go to $7000 for a special sort of loose end that would be far too painful to waste my numbered days on, but would make me feel much better knowing someone's got it handled.
He also lines up an alternate funeral director to have a backup site, and I imagine that's not free.
> One guy wanted me to put fireworks in his coffin so they went off during a parade, another guy wanted to be naked, lying on his front and for me to write "kiss this" on his a for when he had an open casket viewing.
This reminds me of Swiss kinetic artist Jean Tinguely: his coffin was followed by one of his mechanical sculptures with noisy fireworks and smoke… He was also known as a “party perturbator” [1] (article in German).
Another one of his surprises, a bit unrelated but noteworthy: a “major auto-destructive performance, a work called La Vittoria, in front of Milan Cathedral in 1970. La Vittoria was a 10-metre-high phallus made of papier-mâché, spiked with fireworks, and then set on fire.”
(I stress that the installation was set up in front of the “Duomo”) [2].
Reminds me a bit of Irish wakes[0]. It does sound a bit "too good to be true," but the Australians have exactly this type of humor, so I could believe it.
Why should I believe some stranger who just walked into the funeral? Why would anyone listen to a gate-crasher? I think this kind of service only works on gullible people.
"I'm here to tell you something that the deceased had a whole lifetime to tell you, but just decided not to."
I have to say some of the comments are hilarious but worth noting I more than most understand the desire to know more and to get to the facts it’s in my nature and my job but for those of you who ask why as a PI have exposed myself I’m actually a financial investigator www.freedomfromdebtcollectors.com.au and in Australia we can have a number of businesses registered under the one ABN number. As for those who feel the stories are best taken to the grave I understand but don’t shoot the messenger.
Like me or loath me I guess you won’t forget me.
The Coffin Confessor
"It's all secure, and when they pass, the next of kin receives the login and that person will get to read the deceased person's confession. I got 8,000 uploads in one week and it's just gone from there. There's some really funny stuff, but I would definitely contact the police if something was posted on the site that I felt was a serious crime that needed to be reported."
If he can read it directly like that, it's not really that secure (or at least private), is it? I understand the law enforcement argument here so I'm not quite sure how I feel about this.
This seems to be a great way to tell your relatives and loved ones what a bitter, revengeful person you had been all along, who couldn't even find forgiveness in death. There is also a massive potential for abusing such a service to destroy the lives of people you hated, disliked or were jealous of during your lifetime. Just let the coffin confessor tell some made-up story during your funeral. Who would question the last confession of a dying person?
I don't understand. There's no satisfaction in it if you're dead. If you have something to say, surely the best time to do it is when you're still alive? I can't think of anything sadder than knowing you're going to die, wanting to be able to say something — good or bad — to someone important to you, and STILL being unable to do it yourself.
> I don't understand. There's no satisfaction in it if you're dead.
Why not? People gain satisfaction from eg knowing that their work will endure after them, or that there offspring will live on etc. Why should this be different?
Of course, whether or not the 'coffin confessor' follows through for any one specific persons funeral doesn't make a different to that specific person: they are dead.
But following through is still essential, because for the next client to get satisfaction out of the service while they are still living requires the 'coffin confessor' to have a reputation for following through.
Well actually the first use Thomas Edison envisioned for his phonograph, at a time when live music was everywhere, was to record the last words of dying people so they can be replayed at their funerals. A company was setup to provide exactly this but supposedly met no success.
Sorry I have no source to provide but I take it from a reliable (french) broadcast.
How could he not be? I'm a little sad that that question isn't given in this article. A compare/contrast with that would be interesting. (Although maybe he's sick of that question?)
> It's all secure, and when they pass, the next of kin receives the login and that person will get to read the deceased person's confession. I got 8,000 uploads in one week and it's just gone from there. There's some really funny stuff, but I would definitely contact the police if something was posted on the site that I felt was a serious crime that needed to be reported.
Evidently not that secure then, if he's reading through people's confessions. And worrying when the site explicitly encourages "graphic images, confessions of a crime or something [like] an extra marital affair".
Keep in mind also that it costs $9.99 to upload your confession, with "no guarantees" that the service will actually exist long enough to deliver it.
Honestly I'm not sure if this is really very positive. Funerals are for the living. This is for the dead. Seems like it could cause a lot more harm than good, in some cases.
It's mentioned in the article "[...]but it could have been edited, turned off or the funeral director may have not allowed it".
I suppose this is a less fragile way of fully executing their client's authentic wishes, with a backup funeral home ready to go if it remains impossible.
Sometimes people who were more infamous are better remembered because when they die, nobody really wants to hold back on the juicy dirt on them. For example, the details we know about Stalin's private life are enormous because very few people needed to have him preserved in a good light for history except for a handful of true believers.
Maybe this service will help people remember the dead after they die because it will help catalog all their exploits that they would have otherwise have gotten in trouble for had they been alive.
I can't help reading the first couple paragraphs in gravelly film noir voice. I'm waiting for the gangster's moll to show up with no one else to turn to.
Culturally, it's my feeling that funerals are not for the dead, they are for the living, and this is a way for the dead to cut into the lives of people who now get to move on.
The "zing" element of it is just a way for someone to be hurtful to people who can never have closure on that...
On the flip side - not everyone is cynical, they may say some of the things they had a hard time saying when they were alive, affirmations that maybe made them uncomfortable, or admitting wrongs that may have been too difficult to do when alive.
I'd hope that a service like this would be thoughtful, and pensive, and think of those who are left behind as a primary focus.
Edit: and this is all possibly moot as it sounds like this person isn't even real (I get that this is speculation, but I'm just sharing it because I agree, this story is questionable): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24427464
Edit 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24428153
Pretty good evidence this is actually real, so, yeah, my comment stands though :)