So your last work environment was a disaster and you got fired? Here's how to describe it in your next interview: It was a GREAT PLACE to work, I loved it, so many great learning experiences! Unfortunately the objectives of the company shifted away from my core experiences and I wasn't needed, so they had to let me go. But GREAT people there.

Seriously.

If the place sucked, you can diplomatically point out it was a challenging experience (not ideal) and you learned a lot from it. Just don't dwell on the negative. Emphasizing the opportunities you're hoping to find in your next job might give the interviewer the impression you didn't find it to be a good fit.

Why do you think I'm switching jobs, because it is so great I can't handle being so happy at a job so I have to switch? Or maybe because it is shit. But you can't say that. I tried being honest didn't work. I tried lying, it worked very well.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather not knowingly hire in this sort of toxicity. Tough love and unfiltered opinions (honesty) can simply be an excuse for being an asshole when there are other options.

The person can calmly describe that there were pre-existing problems, though, hint and be honest at them (but not dwell), and go on about how they learned some life lessons and so on. When describing the issues, use fairly neutral, non-value-based terms.

So instead of saying, "The company is shit", you can say things like, "I'm not happy at the company" or "I don't feel like i*m a good fit for the culture there". Perhaps your honesty needs help with presentation.

By the tone you write in, my guess is arrogance may have played a role when it didn’t work. But what do I know, I’m an interviewer :)

When you sense that things are going bad (company is downsizing, running out of money, boss hates you, etc.) then it's time to start looking for another job.

It is much easier to land a job when you still have one. It also means the new company will unlikely call your current employer for a reference.

Finally, it allows you to leave on your own terms rather than get fired/laid off.

I am not saying it wasn’t a bad situation, just that you can still learn from it. Maybe, just maybe, the timing of your vacation could’ve been a little different? Maybe you could’ve worded ‘I don’t like the job I’m only here for a year’ a little differently.

Your next employer will have to decide whether the environment was toxic, or you were. Showing growth proves it was them and not you.

> I had a lot of suggestions for improving the codebase

It's important to learn politics and humility.

As a new graduate (or junior in general) on your first job you should be extremely careful about making suggestions to 'improve' things. Heck at any point of your career you should be careful about doing that soon after joining unless you were brought in as an expert to do just that.

From this and the rest of your post, I would suggest that you try to develop a more diplomatic, political, and humble approach in your next job. This is an important skill.

Even if you are convinced that your suggestions are the best and absolute truth, at a minimum be attentive and humble.

On one occasion a senior engineer came to my team and on the second week brought some major suggestions that were immediately accepted by the front end team, but that's the exception and not the norm

It doesn't matter if you are a newbie or more experienced, give some respect to the rest of the team

I welcome input from even very junior people on my team. But important advice: if your idea is (respectfully) rejected by your team lead, then let it go. Don't try to passive aggressively (or openly) push for your idea after that time.

So I find it much better to first of all ask "hey, why does this bit do this?" Once you've got the answer, if your suggestion still holds, run it past the team at that point.

But yeah, I'd be more likely to promote/recommend someone who I can see understands when things are suboptimal, provided they take the time to understand the "why" first.

"Hey I saw you are using X here, is there a reason you are using X instead of Y?"

The response will be one of the following:

1. Oh, I didn't know about Y or I didn't know Y could do that

2. Yes we looked into Y but picked X because of A, B, C

3. X is just better, Y is stupid <- This is the mark of an insecure dev and you need to think long and hard about if you want to stay at the company

Also be able to READ THE ROOM, if you respond the #2 with "Ahh but Y can do A, B, C as well..." and you aren't getting any traction then cut your losses.

I also look forward to what ideas new people bring. That's why you want a flow of people in/out of the company.

I waited about a month before suggesting anything. And it wasn't even serious stuff (e.g. "I think we could use a C API here, that way we don't need a Objective-C++ bridge between the C++ code and Swift", his answer: "No." with no explanation - I'm pretty sure he didn't understand what I was suggesting, and had no interest in trying to understand)

Eventually I learned to make him think he came up with the idea, that was the only way things could get done. Unfortunately I wasted my social capital on the suggestions that had the most impact (early on, before I realized politics were a thing), but thankfully I managed to make some improvements.

> From this and the rest of your post, I would suggest that you try to develop a more diplomatic, political, and humble approach in your next job. This is an important skill.

Agreed. My biggest lesson for sure.

You shouldn't lie during an interview, but you're under no obligation to be so openly honest by offering additional details that you do yourself a disservice getting another job. I.e. If they ask you directly "were you fired from your last job?" I'd answer "the job was challenging. Let me elaborate...", etc. and if pressed actually say you were fired. But if they don't ask you that direct question, just don't mention or allude to the fact you were fired. At least that's how I'd play it.

Incidentally the same thing applies with "what were you earning?". Always ignore the question and deflect. Answer the question you wanted to hear which is "how much do you want?" and deflect. E.g. The correct answer is "I'm looking for $xx,000. So what sort of tech are they using?". If they press you for a figure just say you don't feel it's relevant because you took that job for a variety of reasons, but you're looking to make $xx,000. If they won't let it drop walk away unless it's megacorp that you're desperate to work for. "What's the minimum we can pay you?" is the most valuable piece of information a potential employer can find out about you and the last thing you should tell them.

Suggesting the first figure is all about anchoring [1]. Once that first figure is out there it sets the tone for the negotiation. Many employers will try to offer you $current_salary + $small_delta. This advice is all about anchoring at a higher figure, breaking away from any relationship to your previous figure. So it's important you do say the first figure.

Also, the deflection is there to make the figure you want seem normal to you. It's no big deal you're asking for a whopping salary - that's just what you expect. The last thing you want to do is take a sharp intake of breath and make it seem like you're overplaying your hand. Just casually drop in $top_end_figure and move on with the conversation.

A great book on negotiation skills is "Everything is Negotiable" [2]. That book has literally made me thousands.

[1] https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/negotiation-skills-daily/w...

[2] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Negotiable-4th-Gavin-Ken...

Personally I try to start a discussion about how important benefits are to me, and the fact that they can make comparing salaries between companies meaningless, so I can't really talk about pay expectations until I have a good understanding of the full compensation package.

But I'd love to hear some other approaches to go to.

https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer...

I don't know if this is the specific article addressing that question, but this guys writing on negotiations was very helpful to me.

*Edit: Of course this isn't something I want to let a prospective employer know, so I try to keep it generic by referencing benefits.

Agreed, but it would even be better to give a numbers, like 5 of the 15 members quit, so it doesn't look like you're exagerating. If you need to say something negative about your old employer, try to focus on facts and give details to make it more credible (and then steer the conversation to a more positive topic as soon as possible).

Interviews are, fundamentally, sales propositions. You shouldn't outright lie, but you don't need to focus on the negative things either. People on the spectrum (as many engineers tend to be...) find this kind of stuff very hard. But for most people, it's fairly normal to sugar coat things to keep the social machinery flowing. It took me a long time to learn this.

For instance, you didn't like the environment which didn't care about technical debt, thought it was time for a company change, and when you voiced your concerns honestly, they let you go.

People know there are toxic environments out there.

Very important: Try to get the new employers to fall in love with hiring you before you get to that question. You can do this by having a great introductory phone screen (try to focus them on telling you about/selling you on the position before they can focus on you. During that conversation you can explain how your skills are in line with what they need, talk a little shop, show you are qualified).

Another way to achieve this is to have a great github/personal web page. If you do these things, employers will care much less about what happened at your last position and want you because of what you can do for them.

Also, just as an FYI: while your manager was wrong with most of his statements,

> Killing an app in iOS via the app switcher is the same as `kill -9`

iOS apps are essentially SIGKILLed if they’re swiped up on in the app switcher.

> iOS apps are essentially SIGKILLed if they’re swiped up on in the app switcher.

Sorry, I worded that poorly. To be clear, he use the word literally to describe it. Which I think is pretty misleading. iOS still calls the delegate method (and probably some other stuff) beforehand.

You left a startup that was shutting down, you had 2 weeks notice left and they let you go early. Unless they have documented instances of poor performance they can't really give you a bad reference. Also if there's severance pay that they're not paying because they stand by 'poor performance' they're probably asking illegally.

It was scary, and I wondered exactly the same things you did. I can offer you this advice FWIW. I found another job within 6 weeks of being let go, and I had two other offers on the table.

* Be honest. If the web form asks you if you left the company voluntarily, say no. If you left on bad terms, they'll generally ask you whether they can contact your last employer for a reference, and you can say no. They'll get the picture.

* That said, you don't exactly have to lead off every interview with it. Honestly, I don't think any of the interviewers I talked with even asked me about it. They're interested in their own impressions of you and the work you've done.

* You should prepare a short explanation that - and this is important - doesn't blame or denigrate your prior employer. I mean it. Swallow whatever feelings you have about the situation and be professional about it. A new employer may not care about the circumstances of your leaving your last gig, but they WILL certainly care about the bitter, angry guy they just interviewed for this position. Something along the lines of "My leadership and I agreed that I was no longer a good fit for the position." It sounds gross, I know, but it's not really meant to be believed, and allows everyone to save a little face.

* If they press you, you might frame it as "personality conflicts" or "communications issues". However you decide to frame it, rehearse the explanation and maybe a quick followup. You don't want to start to ramble when you're on the spot, because that'll make you nervous and you may stumble into saying something you regret.

I know exactly what you're going through. We had just bought a house, we had a nine-month-old baby, and we didn't have much in the way of savings. It was scary as hell. But you square yourself up, set your jaw, and do what you have to do. You'll get through it, and one day you'll laugh about it. I promise you you're not the first person who's been fired. Hang in there.

I was devastated at the tine and it took me a year to recover.

Your advice is excellent, full of pragmatic wisdom and, had I encountered similar guidance during my convalescence, I likely would have regained my confidence sooner.

Especially useful is your suggestion to “be professional about it” as a contextualization for words “that are not really meant to be believed, and allows everyone to save a little face”.

(My problem was partly that I was so angry about being mistreated that I thought the truth should come out and my manager should be held accountable. If I could have let that go sooner, I’d have recovered faster.)

Also be prepared to talk about everything you learned and what you could have done better yourself. It seems like you have a good idea with hindsight about a lot of things that didn't seem right at the time.

But as noted by others, employers understand that there are toxic work environments out there. Be honest but don't belabor the point.

Don't spend more than a sentence or two discussing your previous role. Describe their business model and leave it at that.

90% of your interview should be finding out what skills and tech your new employer needs and explaining to them why you're perfect for delivering those skills.

"Always talked and about things he hated or how things sucked. Rarely anything positive."

I don't know if you realize everything you talk about your first job is negative.

I would focus on the positive and minimize exposure if it really was that bad, which I doubt, because your manager told you reasonable things.

I am c programmer myself, with lots of experience programming lots of other languages, and programming raw c is extremely inefficient use of your time, most of the time.

With less than 1 year of experience, your suggestions are of very little value, and if you get experience working with a bad team, you are not improving but learning bad habits.

In an interview, tell the truth, but you had a bad emotional experience and are highly biased against your old job. Look at it as a neutral third person looking from outside. Be grateful for it, and start looking at the good side of it. Write it down.

Forgive them, you decided to work with them so you were as responsible as they were. It is your fault as much as it is theirs. Forgiving them is forgiving you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrdEMERq8MA

On future projects and endeavors start focusing on what you what to do, not on what you don't want to do. Companies love people that is proactive and efficient, not people that blames others, complains and put excuses.

But it should not be about passing an interview. Your attitude should change.

ALSO, there was another team that I think I would have been a much better fit for (tech lead actually gave a shit about programming and gave people autonomy) but unfortunately I did not take the initiative to switch over.

I have references from other people at the company as well, including the CTO, that I actually liked working with, and they liked working with me. Unfortunately they were not on my team.

If you got on with the CTO, I would reach out to them and ask if they could be your reference. Since they outrank your manager, most companies will happily take a reference from them, especially if you worked with them directly a bit.

It might be a tricky political conversation, but if you suggest that you were disappointed how things ended, and you know how sometimes your manager can, how shall we say, put things in a negative light, they really ought to be willing.

(If you're somewhere with labour laws, consider talking to a lawyer, and be willing to threaten to get a good reference and a resignation, not a firing.)

Any new company, just give the CTO as the reference. If asked about it, just say something like they were best placed to assess you during your time at the company where you worked with a variety of people.

A positive way to look at being fired is that your company was having problems and your managers were stressed. You set a goal to stick it out for a year and you achieved that goal. Rather than only giving the usual two weeks notice, you let your managers know in advance that you were planning to seek other opportunities. They decided that you didn't need to work a notice period and released you immediately. We hope things have improved for them. You didn't do anything wrong. They didn't fire you because you stole from the company or were accused of sexual harassment.

I will say that 20 years ago, particularly in large software companies, it was common that you would give your notice and security would escort you to the door. Companies didn't want you to work through a notice period because you were deemed "disloyal." Maybe your manager didn't grow out of this mindset.

In terms of a reference, if they are smart they won't say anything negative. Most companies won't simply because they want to avoid litigation. It sounds like they have much more important things to worry about than damaging your career.

Hopefully you worked with other people who can be references for you... probably worked with you more than your managers. LinkedIn is a good resource for this.

You can still use references outside your employer... from school, from volunteer work, etc. Personal projects you work on can also be excellent examples of how you do things when not influenced by office politics. As best you can, build and document a case that you do/did good work. The company won't be around long to be a reference in the future.

I'm sorry you had a miserable experience, but as a hiring manager it wouldn't detract from my view of you. On the side, I'd think you would appreciate working for me more since you had a bad experience somewhere else. Be thankful that you were there, yet thankful that you aren't there any longer.

I appreciate that you stuck it out and that you are willing to ask for advice when you aren't sure. I think you have good qualities that I look for when hiring.

Best of luck in your career.

OK the company sounds pretty terrible and it's good that you're now able to dedicate time to finding a new job with a more sensible company. But unfortunately telling them this was probably a bit of a mistake, you should keep your cards to your chest in future.

However I really don't think you need to stress too much about the "Why I left" part. You'll be asked about the technical stuff long before that even comes up, and if it does ... "Well I came back from vacation to find out I was fired for 'performance reasons' - it never came up before, I think they were upset I didn't cancel my holidays to meet the deadline for ${project}. To be honest I'm a little glad as the job was wearing me down - the team was quite unstable (30% of the engineering team quit when I joined), we had little opportunity to tackle technical debt ...". If the interviewers are reasonable they'll sieze the opportunity to ask you about how you would have preferred to handle the technical debt (or whatever the other carefully selected problems you raise here) then you're back talking tech stuff again.

Others have said that you don't want to bring it up or complain as it'll be a red flag. But I don't think they'll automatically assume the employer was right, they'll be trying to figure that out while talking to you. You have the advantage in this situation because you're the one who's able to do the talking, not your previous employer. If you're calm, polite, reasonable and able to talk objectively about the situation then they'll assume it's your previous employer who was at fault :-)

When discussing your previous positions stick to facts (I did X, Y, and Z) and positive notes about what you learned and accomplished.

Second, I wouldn't tell people that I was fired. I would list a year of experience there. If someone asked why I left I'd say that I learned a ton, the work was interesting - whatever true and positive evaluations I had, but ultimately I wasn't sure I could accomplish my career goals at the startup and so, after giving it a year, I've decided to consider other opportunities.

My advice for your next job: don't mention any of the bad things you've experienced, talk about all the good things you've learned, the great team you had etc.. always remain positive in every new interview. And don't expect a great developer experience when you enter a new company, (although it sometimes happens), you work for money in the first place, and coding is your skill.

You can explain this story the same way as you did here, with perhaps a little less bitterness. Something like:

“This was my first job. I thought I needed the experience, even though I knew the company was somewhat toxic. It was not going well, but thought I’d stay because it would look bad if I left. Then I told my boss things weren’t going well and he fired me, which to be honest was a relief. So all in all it was a big mistake and a waste of time, but at least now I know that company culture is important and this is also why I want to join your great company blah blah blah”

And you go on from there.

Personal disclosure is a desirable managerial trait.

So, you got booted. They said 'performance'. You say the place was dysfunctional.

Question: What did you learn from this experience?

- What do you think you would do differently?

- Will any former colleagues/supervisors serve as a professional reference; vouch for the quality of your work?

Spend as much time as possible with my manager BEFORE accepting the job. Keep my yap shut unless I have something useful to say.

There are other "lessons" I already knew, but intentionally went against because I wanted 1 YoE and/or wanted to see what would happen: Quit if I don't like it, don't tell your manager you want to quit unless you're actually quitting, don't be negative.

> What do you think you would do differently?

Switch teams.

> Will any colleagues/supervisors serve as a reference; vouch for the quality of your work?

Yes. There were two engineering teams, I was on the shit one. There was a better engineering team (led by the CTO). Every time I worked on their codebase / interacted with them it was a positive experience. The CTO and a few people on that team reached out and said "let me know if you need anything" - so I think I'm good.

Good. So, be sure incorporate this into your disclosure. That will mitigate potential Red Flags to new employers.

Be prepared to answer. Networks often overlap in mysterious ways in the business.

ex: Truthfully, I was let go. My CTO and colleagues will vouch for the quality of my work. But my direct reporting manager was a bit difficult.

That’s why I am being very strategic about my job search, really focusing in on the people, culture, and reporting relationships.

Sounds like a shitty company; so I wouldn't expect a glowing reference...