Macbook Pro "improvements" over the last 3-7 years:
* No more matte display
* RAM soldered to the board
* SSD soldered in
* remove all ports except USB-C
* make keyboard worse
* remove function keys, replace with touch surface that's redundant at best
But it's very thin!
And even thinner was the recent Macbook, and if the law of "diminishing returns" matters as little as the usual defenses of all the above tradeoffs in pursuit of light/thin imply, you'd think that that'd be worth keeping.
Maybe there is a limit, and Apple's actually reflected on that?
Or... maybe it's just a recognition that the Air and Macbook had come to a place where there was little distinguishing them. And that really, the MBP is less and less designed/deployed with actual professionals in mind and more and more meant for a prosumer subsegment. In which case reducing focus to two models (general purpose consumer laptop, light netbook) makes sense.
>So what are we to make of the four-year-old MacBook’s demise? ... The laptop got mixed reactions from the get-go. Its high portability and lovely Retina screen were welcomed compared to the bulky, non-Retina MacBook Air of the time.
Pure insanity. We're now referring to the original MacBook Air as bulky!?
I really (really!) appreciate how thin they are. The new 15in is as heavy as the old 13in. Really nice when you have to carry it around all the time. The biggest pain point is the lack of ports (4 ports including power) is not enough. The older models had around 5+ ports and still required dongles. Everything else aside from the keyboard is a minor issue (e.g. getting more ram today versus in the future is just a question of deferring costs).
> getting more ram today versus in the future is just a question of deferring costs
Not really. I had a 2011 MacBook. In 2015 I was able to upgrade the RAM to chips that didn't exist in 2011. Technically they weren't supported, but they worked just fine. I couldn't have done that if the chips were soldered to the board.
I also upgraded the drive from spinning disk to a much larger SSD. Again an upgrade I couldn't have done otherwise.
It allowed me to keep using the machine until 2017.
We're in the same boat. I'm using the last 2012 pre-retina unibody 15". With maxed out RAM and SSD it's adequate for nearly everything I've thrown at it.
It's also had an admirable run, so I'd be happy to buy again at some point... but a matte screen matters to me. As does a good keyboard. And being able to swap out the drive. All more than any spec or form factor improvements that have happened subsequently.
So while I'd be happy to have replaced this laptop by now, maybe even more than once... Apple simply does not sell replacements for this laptop. They sell laptops which have a mix of regressions and somewhat improved performance (and they're thinner!). And past a point of meeting certain demands, the regressions matter more than performance gains or ounces lost.
Maybe when it finally dies, I'll see if I can find a serviceable 2015 model. Or maybe by then WSL will be an acceptable alternative and this will be the last of half a dozen Apple machines I bought.
And they'll be as happy about it as I will, because as many pundits, product managers, and fans like to say: maybe people like me just aren't part of their target market anymore.
I’m still using my 2011 due to the ability to update the RAM and SSD. I’m moving to a Windows 10/iPad/server setup, but I still use my laptop on occasion.
I meant that were the chips upgradeable, you would still spend the money, only you would do it later. With the components soldered on, you have to spend the money today, not 4 years later.
I'm also of the opinion that hardware today is going to improve rather little in the coming years. For instance, with the option of having 16/32gb of ram, I don't see the need to upgrade the laptop on account of the memory for a good 5 years, at least. Even the new SSDs have 2gb throughput, _much_ higher than the SSD you installed into your 2011 MacBook.
Finally, Macs have always had amazing resale value. You can always sell a 5 year model for a few hundred dollars and invest in something that will be much better.
> I meant that were the chips upgradeable, you would still spend the money, only you would do it later.
Yes, but my point was that I couldn't spend the money up front even if I wanted to, because the thing I upgraded to didn't exist. It's not "deferred cost" if you get something better later. It's only deferred cost if you get the same thing but later.
> getting more ram today versus in the future is just a question of deferring costs
I see as giving you more flexibility, because you don't always know how much you'll need. Without this flexibility, you choose low, and are stuck with a slow computer, or you choose high, and you may end up paying a ton for a computer you may not need.
It's also more efficient processors and hardware in general. You get more power for a smaller battery, which results in a thinner frame and lighter laptop
Yeah, the Thinkpads seem like the best Windows laptops. If I used Windows, it would be an X1. Don't much care for the carbon fibre body (love the aluminum of the MacBooks) but the weight is excellent on those.
I also hate that MacBook Pro touchpads are oversized and easy to touch with your thumbs by accident. I had one issued for a job and had annoying, error-inducing swipes about three times a day.
Unless you are really good at keeping your hands off the trackpad when you rest your hands, the previous generation trackpad was overall better in day to day use, and anything bigger is better as an external peripheral.
The problem is, Apple’s palm rejection tech just isn’t good enough, and if you have to write fancy software to cover a deficiency in the size of a piece of hardware, then you’re better off going with the smaller size. I’m assuming without the palm rejection, it would be an even bigger issue, and I wouldn’t trust any OEMs to get that right.
That said, it is only comparatively worse than the previous generation of Apple’s laptop trackpads which was already enormous, and arguably enormous enough. Compared to other laptops from other vendors, I could definitely see the appeal.
The palm rejection tech is so good that I can't recall a single time I ever accidentally triggered it. In fact, it was so good I didn't even consider that it had palm rejection tech until I read about it, I just never considered that it was a problem.
Ditto. Every time I use someone else’s laptop, or my Dell XPS, I feel like either I turned into some giant, or the trackpad got zapped by a shrink ray. The giant trackpad is probably the best thing about the recent MBPs.
YMMV. People have different palms. Sometimes when it's cold or my hands are a little clammy not even my index finger registers on the track pad or my phone.
> Apple’s palm rejection tech just isn’t good enough
Must be something wrong with your palms ;)
I have never thought about this issue, but reading these comments I tried it out. I can't move the mouse cursor with my palms, it is virtually impossible. The "Apple palm rejection tech" is really good. Data point from a Mac Book Pro, 2017.
>The problem is, Apple’s palm rejection tech just isn’t good enough, and if you have to write fancy software to cover a deficiency in the size of a piece of hardware, then you’re better off going with the smaller size.
As a user of both the Macbook Pro and the X1 Carbon, I have to agree. The MBP touchpad handles gestures and palm rejection really well. On the other hand I get accidental swipes every hour with the X1 Carbon that I can only bear using its keyboard in an emergency. FWIW I have oversized hands.
However, I do overshoot and tap the MBP touchbar now and then, which can be annoying.
I can’t stand using Any trackpad, but the huge Mac one literally deters me from buying a Macbook. I am very much sold on Trackpoint, which I find to be all of conveniently positioned, not nearly as accident prone, and quite precise. Some also don’t realize this, but if you hold the middle button while pointing the trackpoint, it scrolls, which is super useful; I hardly have to move my hands to operate the pointer. A lot of people with aversion to trackpoint can be seen doing odd things, like scrubbing across it like its a mouse or trackpad. Once you get past these issues, which unfortunately does represent a learning curve, it’s quite good in my opinion.
My take: I think the touchbar and giant touchpad are both symptoms of Apple’s aversion to put a touchscreen on the Mac. With many Thinkpads and other PC laptops, you may not get quite as good of a touchpad experience (though Microsoft Precision Touchpad is a pretty good experience I would argue,) but my touchscreen experience with even Linux has been pretty good in recent years, and it has ended up being a useful, if not quite killer, feature to have.
Touchbar makes little sense to me. Power users don’t look down at their keyboards. I think the same reason Valve dropped the screen on the Steam controller applies to keyboards, and is probably part of the reason why similar visual keyboard utilities have largely not sold well. Interestingly, ones that have, like the Streamdeck, are often designed to be positioned on a much more convenient angle. On top of all of this, it didn’t seem worth getting rid of the useful fixed-position keys for a programmable bar.
And on top of everything... I don’t even think Apple has made the most compelling innovative designs in this space anyways. PC laptop manufacturers have been trying arguably more interesting and possibly even more useful concepts for a while to varying degrees of success. For example, MSI has a keyboard where the number pad is a programmable touchscreen. I believe ASUS has a laptop where instead of a touchbar, you get 3 small desktops that you can pin things to. Granted, none of these things are likely to stick in the long term, but I also believe the touchbar won’t either.
I think I get why Apple does not want to put a touchscreen on Mac: the interface isn’t really designed for it. But as much as I have a strong dislike of Windows 10s propensity to install Candy Crush without my consent, I will also concede and say it does a seriously excellent job handling a touchscreen on a desktop. It’s a shame that it will take so long to clean up decades of UI cruft, but even with it, Windows turns out to be a good experience with a touchscreen so as long as you have another precise pointing method simultaneously.
So after all is said and done, and contrary to probably many people’s sensibilities, I actually think the PC laptop market is doing peripherals better, even if the touchpad drivers can be a bummer.
Apple's trackpads are in a class of their own and their large size is a feature given how good they are.
I also liked the trackpoint when I had a thinkpad, but I think Apple's trackpads are better. The trackpoint is nice, but can hurt your knuckle after a while (and I'd argue it's not quite as fast).
Actually, it’s simpler than that: I really mean I can’t handle trackpads. Something about the angle causes me weird issues, especially with multitouch gestures; it’s a weird kind of hypersensitivity. This is even despite that Apple trackpads are glass.
I don’t have any issue with trackpoint hurting my knuckle, though I will concede it may not be as fast. I still have a surprisingly good time hitting precise targets with it, though.
Right, but they were already making that point themselves. The comment they responded to literally hated the feature. They pointed out, okay, but it's my favorite feature.
So, I use Dell XPS 13 personally, and when I got MacBook Pro 15 2018 model, I was super unhappy with size of trackpad. It took a while, but I got used to it and now prefer over my XPS-13 trackpad.
The trackpad was always amazing (force touch, sensitivity, palm detection and all), but I think the extra size makes doing gestures super smooth. As in, my fingers don't feel constrained.
It used to happen constantly to me whilst touch typing on a 2016, yet is extremely rare to never on the 2015 MBP I replaced it with. So annoying to keep having something trigger whilst just typing something.
It was 2 broken keyboards in 6 or 7 months that had me sell and replace it though, but damn that massive touchpad was awful.
I like my 2019 MBP because it's thin, has a better display, has a great trackpad, decent keyboard, and a touchbar that I use fairly frequently for auto-complete.
I mean, I'd live with it if the keyboard weren't utter shit and if there weren't reliability issues (keyboard and displays failing, unregulated power through the USB ports). I don't like the soldered RAM and storage, the glued on battery, but I still bought a (refurb) 2015 MBP last year. But as long as each revision of the MBP continues to have additional flaws with little benefit, I'll continue to consider alternatives. With this trend my next laptop will not be an Apple one.
And, for the record, I don't like the flashygizmotouchbarthing, but if they had kept a hard power and escape button it wouldn't have been a deal breaker. I don't use vi all that much, but I do use the escape key to navigate dialog boxes and web sites.
I knew about the keyboards when I bought mine, but didn't opt for Apple Care because they're offering a 4 year warranty on the keyboards whether you bought Apple Care or not.
Of all the complaints about the keyboard, the reliability issue with them are real, but also they're the one thing Apple owns up to. When I get the keyboard swapped they often also swap out a new battery for me.
There are other reasons to pick AMD. Better Linux drivers. Business practices that I'm more comfortable supporting (they tend to be more open, e.g. non-proprietary, free to use FreeSync vs proprietary G-Sync). Stuff like that.
* No more matte display
* RAM soldered to the board
* SSD soldered in
* remove all ports except USB-C
* make keyboard worse
* remove function keys, replace with touch surface that's redundant at best
But it's very thin!
And even thinner was the recent Macbook, and if the law of "diminishing returns" matters as little as the usual defenses of all the above tradeoffs in pursuit of light/thin imply, you'd think that that'd be worth keeping.
Maybe there is a limit, and Apple's actually reflected on that?
Or... maybe it's just a recognition that the Air and Macbook had come to a place where there was little distinguishing them. And that really, the MBP is less and less designed/deployed with actual professionals in mind and more and more meant for a prosumer subsegment. In which case reducing focus to two models (general purpose consumer laptop, light netbook) makes sense.