Carbohydrates are not a bad thing and are indeed an important part of health. The current suggested diet doesn't say, 'bread'. It specifically calls out Whole Grains, which a great deal of evidence suggests are a Good Thing. Suggesting that grains, or even carbs, are somehow worse than literal fat is misleading at best, and delusional at it's worst.
The phrase "literal fat" shows just how successful the misguided low-fat crusade was: they don't even need any modifiers to show that they're "bad."
At any rate, it's very easy to design a diet for humans without grains in it that's healthy and that you can thrive on, but impossible to design one without fat. So in that respect at least, literal fat is better than grains.
It is however hardly possible to design a human diet without carbs where the planet doesn't suffer from a large scale ecological disaster[1] (assuming most of the world's population would adopt that diet), unless unconventional animal food sources, such as insects or krill, become mainstream. I don't see that happening any time soon.
Yes I am in the camp that believe fats and proteins are both much healthier than carbs, and especially refined sugars. The latest nutrition supports low carb diets, as can be seen with Atkins and Keto diets.
Not wanting to blast an entire profession, and I am not even the guy you are talking with...
But to me, PhD in nutrition doesn't mean much, it is like PhD in underwater basket weaving, I am yet to met a single nutrition professional that could help me, and believe me, I looked really, really hard.
In the end the only people that could help me, were endocrionologists, biologists, and other scientists in fields that are not directly relation to nutrition.
And the reason for that, is precisely because of that high-carb recommendation, that is just insane, many cultures on earth lived just fine with low, or even zero carbs (extreme example: north-pole inhabitants, that in some places have diets that are 100% meat, organs included, since "regular" meat lacks some nutrients, like Vitamin C).
In more tribal places (all over the world too, Africa, Asia, Americas...) hunter tribes also tend to be healthier than farmer tribes (but also tend to have much lower population numbers).
And in many places, before FDA push for the vegetable agenda (I am not talking about veganism or vegatarianism, but about FDA constantly defending vegetable based food, including by accepting research that was fraudulent), people would happily eat lots of animal fats and meat, and live just fine. (example: in my country before the 60s, everyone used pork fat to fry stuff, and even make soap, but after vegetable oils became popular, and the government started to give strong subsidies to wheat, obesity, diabetes, etc... exploded, many common people still believe egg and cheese is absolutely evil, and prefer to stuff their faces with artificial sweeteners, soy milk, and salad with enough oily dressing to lubricate a car, than eat some eggs).
> The latest nutrition supports low carb diets, as can be seen with Atkins and Keto diets.
That statement is not supported by any reliable studies.
The latest nutrition supports a healthy mix of carbs and fats, specifically whole grain and unsaturated fats. Not a monodiet of fat, nor a monodiet of carbs, nor processed carbs, nor saturated fats.
Focusing too much on a fat-based diet causes massive kidney issues, just as a too much carb-based diet causes circulatory issues.
Could you point to the studies that lead you to that conclusion? Meta-studies or similar ideally.
(Not getting at you for your viewpoint - I'm making this comment to a few people in this thread who say that the latest research supports their argument. You may well be right, but I don't know enough about your background to take your word for it, so I'd be interested to see your sources. )
I recently have had to conclude that HN is not the right audience to express this kind of ideas and not be downvoted.
I am fine with people taking "religious" positions when it comes to a text editor or the latest web framework, the problem is that nutritional choices have environmental and health-related consequences, so I would rather them be fact-based.
Also, I wonder what we're going to see next on HN, flat earth? Chemtrails? After a recent submission which was also related to nutritional topics, I have been considering leaving HN altogether.
>Suggesting that grains, or even carbs, are somehow worse than literal fat is misleading at best, and delusional at it's worst.
Carbs/sugars trigger insulin production...fats don't do that. Just look at the Western diet and the substitution of fats with sugars in the food industry in the 70's and you will trace origins of type 2 diabetes that would begin appearing in children - yes, it used to be called adult onset diabetes - now over a million cases.
Carbs are not inherently bad, but there is no doubt way to much in the Western diet and from poor sources.
I think their understanding of nutrition is up-to-date, but focuses on kidney health, not just weight, or the realities of the current American diet.
Whole grains are great and very healthy, and a high-carb diet rich in whole grains and with an appropriate level of calories will be great.
On the other hand, while a ketogenic diet is great for weight control and cardiovascular health, they're probably much worse for your kidneys.
In the US, kidney issues are a problem, but cardiovascular health are a much bigger problem. Perhaps more importantly, people who don't do keto/high-protein usually aren't on a perfect veggie-rich, whole grain diet instead. They're on a diet of refined carbs and excessive calories.
If you're really committed to a super-healthy diet, you should probably eat lots of carbs, but the right carbs--complex and mixed with fiber. If you're an average American who doesn't feel like a diet of veggies and whole grains, high-protein is probably a good route to take. I tend to go high protein (even as a vegetarian) because I enjoy the taste and it fills me up better than many others things I like. It fits my health vs. food enjoyment balance in a way I have the will-power to maintain.
In short, complex carbs are great, but don't make perfect the enemy of the good, and don't set yourself up for failure.
If you're looking to avoid confusion you should refer to them as starches, they are the complex carbs (such as rice, beans, potatoes etc.) that give us energy and should form the largest proportion of any healthy diet.
- These starches should preferably be unrefined (yes, quit that white bread, discover the great taste of brown rice) and eaten alongside some green and yellow vegetables to get extra vitamins, minerals and fibre.
- If you're trying to lose weight faster, avoid consuming oil and fatty foods (e.g. nuts, avocado), use sparingly otherwise.
- Avoid dairy products at all costs.
- Add meat in small amounts if you really can't live without it.
You'll be getting more than your daily calorie/vitamin/mineral/fibre needs, and by not eating a tonne of refined carbs, fats, dairy, and meat you'll be less of a burden on the planet/country/healthcare systems too!
I mostly follow the above advice, but I'm pragmatic when eating out, not everywhere caters to a vegan/plant based diet, or even vegetarian. So while you'll occasionally catch me eating a delicious chicken burger or even possibly a steak, 99%* of the time I eat a plant based diet with zero added oil.
As for the myth of sugar turning to fat: it's a process known as de novo lipogenesis, and yes it happens efficiently in cows, but in humans not so much unless you're eating carbs in greatly excess of your body's energy needs[0]. In 99%* of normal circumstances, the human body will increase its metabolism to cope with the extra calories from carbs. The problem really _is_ consuming too much fat.
* estimated ;)
[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981 "Only when CHO energy intake exceeds TEE [total energy expenditure] does DNL [de novo lipogenesis] in liver or adipose tissue contribute significantly to the whole-body energy economy. It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans."
I won't resort to personal attacks, but I consider this absolutely terrible nutritional advice.
The issue here is "excess carbs" are very easy to exceed consuming grains and sugar.
Carbs (especially sugar) are what most easily gets converted to adipose fat tissue on the body... unintuitively consuming dietary fat is NOT conducive to increasing body fat. Counter intuitive but true.
Consuming a high carb diet, especially if a significant portion comes from high glycemic index sources, will guarantee body fat increase.
Oils, fats, nuts should be primary components of ones diet.
Excess body fat and high carb diet eventually leads to diabetes and metabolic-syndrome, the overall systemic decrease in health and increase in risk factors for other diseases because of being overweight (specifically, over fat).
I could post study after study but for anyone else reading this, you'll have to do your own research and learn from your own experience. Try both diets.
If you've never tried low carb (and high fat.. it's important to replace carbs with fat) then you should do so and observe your energy changes and decrease in body fat. It will happen.
Look at the before and afters, read the experiences.
My nutritional and fitness experience? 5 years Army Special Operations, where diet and nutrition were studied and an important component to unit readiness....and a lifetime of sports and athletics including college football. And then studying the issue quite a lot.
Read the science behind the Atkins / Keto diet. It's not complicated how our bodies store fat.
> Oils, fats, nuts should be primary components of ones diet.
One is not like the others.
Refined vegetable oil is not appropriate for human consumption. Butter and coconut oil are not refined with hexane, or steam deodorized, and are stable at room temperature (and human temperature). Refined vegetable oil can still be used as biodiesel, though.
Small amounts of nuts are okay, but their oils are not exactly stable either.
I'm trying to convince my keto-devoted friend to eat more fruits, to get her metabolism up. She has lost a lot of weight by watching her carb intake. But she's not "well".
I think your advice about oil and fat works well mainly because fat is very calorically dense, and not because there is something inherently wrong with fat. Otherwise fat, fiber, and protein form the backbone of the only meals that I'm sated by, and I get hungry much faster after a meal consisting only of starches and vegetables, which makes dieting by your guidelines very unpleasant.
The results are inaccessible from that link. So I can't tell how hard it is to compensate by reducing greenhouse emissions elsewhere. Also, it's a study about plants vs. animals, mostly focusing on protein. That's not the same thing as an analysis of the cost of a mixed protein/fat diet, sourced from either plant or animal.
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