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I have to admit I only made it about half way through this, by which time it seemed to me that the authors had little more grasp of the concept of irony than Alanis Morissette.

Irony is neither cynicism nor snark. It is an indispensable aspect of most forms of written expression; it is almost impossible to write a successful work of opinion or fiction of any length without mastering this classical tool of rhetoric.

Where would Shakespeare be without irony? And what of the ancient Greeks? It's not modern, it is a connection with our heritage.



I think you're just nitpicking here. You could replace the word "irony" with "X" and the intentions of the author may come through more clearly. Here's not saying "all irony is bad", he's saying modern culture has been permeated to the core with sarcasm and cynicism, to the point that no one knows what anyone actually wants or likes anymore. It's a call for sincerity.


Is it not the case that people are resorting to cynicism and sarcasm as a way to deal with not being wrong? When we're punished for mistakes like we are, doesn't it encourage this testing of the symbolic electric fence to find what's acceptable to another without the commitment?

That's what I see from those people whose personality is like shifting sands that mimics anyone or thing around them to remain safe.


In times like these sincerity is a revolutionary act.


I would argue that at least DFW (and possibly the author) knew exactly what he meant when he said irony. I think maybe irony is misunderstood as necessarily being obvious and bald-facedly deceptive in a noticeable way. I think a lot of the problem DFW was addressing (and I very much agree with h here) that it's so pervasive that we don't even perceive it's ubiquity culturally, and that our modes of communication are so shot through with the stuff that we can't just break down and communicate directly. I could be wrong, but in that sense I thought he was frighteningly prescient. I may be (probably am) mis-reading you, but arguing that irony is important because irony was important doesn't quite work as a counterpoint for me in this case.


I think you're right that the authors knew exactly what they meant when they said "irony"; it's just that what they meant wasn't really irony (I make no comment about DFW, whom I haven't read).

"maybe irony is misunderstood as necessarily being obvious"

You aim for that sweet spot where about half your audience will miss your point. Socrates could needle someone in such as way that only his target was unaware of being mocked.

"our modes of communication are so shot through with the stuff that we can't just break down and communicate directly"

Again, I'm willing to take others' word for it that this is the world they live in. I'm just happy that I don't.


Huh? Alanis Morissette is a master of irony. She wrote an entire song about irony that doesn't contain a single ironic situation. It's so thick you can taste it.


I would be interested to hear if your opinion of the article changes after you read the second half.


By "irony", I'm pretty sure they mean "sarcasm". It seems increasingly common for people to confuse the two.


But sarcasm is a form of irony: its lowest and crudest, the first one we learn when we're brats in elementary school.

I'm pretty sure they have it confused with snark and cynicism, because they use these terms while parading their confusion pretty baldly. They're also talking about something like a dread of sincerity as part of one's lifestyle, I think. Real things in some circles, I don't doubt, but not the same as irony. And nothing to do with my life or the people I talk to. (I don't watch much TV, but I thought Seinfeld was brilliant. Oddly, I think part of its technique had to do with a distinct lack of irony, in making things unusually literal.)


So common, in fact, that this joke was masterfully made nearly 15 years ago: http://pastebin.com/8hLsNWrY

edit: I mean the joke about Alanis Morrisette.




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