How does it not blow your mind that you can write one bit of code and have it instantly available on the vast majority of devices released in the last 20+ years? Yeah, you'll have to write polyfills and hacks, and there will be a lot of boilerplate, but think about that for a second: one bit of code and it runs on phones / tvs / computers / calculators / toasters. Do you have to write it using a tool that was originally designed for a dramatically different environment? Yup. Can you still do it? Yup. How is that not amazing?
C and even C++ run in far more places than Javascript does or ever will. People using other languages won't be interested in or able to use your library written in Javascript.
Anyway, I don't particularly care about writing code that runs on every device ever. I want to write code to solve problems, and for a large set of problems Javascript inside a web browser is fairly useless. Javascript is great if your economic model is getting as many users as possible and then getting aquhired before you run out of capital. This is the case for a lot of people on HN, even if they don't realise it. However I'm a small time developer, not in SV, who programs because I enjoy solving problems and helping people, not to get rich. I'm only really interested in whether $(number of people who can run the code) * $(how much they can pay) > $(my cost of living) so that I can afford to eat. It means I don't care so long as the platform/language I choose has enough users to pay my bills, it doesn't have to be 100% of people. I realise that the industry giants at Google or Mozilla don't really care about people like me ('life style business' is usually a term of derision on HN). In a world of web based operating systems that only run web apps I would end up stacking shelves in the supermarket or on the dole because I dislike that technology stack enough that I can't be productive in it. That is why sometimes I bitch about Javascript.
I don't understand how you connected Javascript with that particular start-up mentality. "Solving problems and helping people" as a development approach is platform agnostic; if you wanted to do that through the web then hey, you would probably use Javascript to accomplish that.
My point is that the benefit of Javascript (i.e. being able to run on all consumer computers with (almost) a single code base) isn't a benefit that interests me. I tried to explain why because I know that a lot of people on HN have very different reasons for wanting to develop software -- people don't apply to YC because they are building a small lifestyle business to support their family.
>if you wanted to do that through the web then hey, you would probably use Javascript to accomplish that.
Well personally I wouldn't since as I said I'd rather not develop software at all then use Javascript/CSS/HTML.
Of course the rest of the industry has no obligation to continue supporting the open native platforms that allow me to use the technologies I prefer. However I don't think it is unreasonable to moan when I see those platforms being killed.
I wish you wouldn't bitch about it at such length with a point that barely makes any sense. 'Only SV posers use JS". Everyone who has a computer, whether handheld or a laptop or whatever, has a browser. There's your distribution. How you blamed its problems on startup mentality I don't even know how you got there.
I think you are just reenforcing my point. I really don't care about targeting 'everyone who has a computer'. Really. I mean it.
I want to use technologies that I enjoy, and I can do that so long as enough people use computers that I can deploy those technologies to.
What I don't want is to be forced to use technologies I dislike just because it's where the money is in the industry and the people with power have decided it benefits them to sell devices that only allow software that runs in the javascript sandbox.
Maybe the reason right now this is where the money is because consumers demand more of the capabilities that Javascript can give them, not because some overlords decided this was going to finally get those lazy programmers.
Personally, I enjoy writing in Javascript a lot. I like how it's more functional than other mainstream languages. And if we're going to debate style, that's great, but distribution just isn't a problem of Javascript, instead, one if its greater strengths.
C and even C++ run in far more places than Javascript does or ever will. People using other languages won't be interested in or able to use your library written in Javascript.
Anyway, I don't particularly care about writing code that runs on every device ever. I want to write code to solve problems, and for a large set of problems Javascript inside a web browser is fairly useless. Javascript is great if your economic model is getting as many users as possible and then getting aquhired before you run out of capital. This is the case for a lot of people on HN, even if they don't realise it. However I'm a small time developer, not in SV, who programs because I enjoy solving problems and helping people, not to get rich. I'm only really interested in whether $(number of people who can run the code) * $(how much they can pay) > $(my cost of living) so that I can afford to eat. It means I don't care so long as the platform/language I choose has enough users to pay my bills, it doesn't have to be 100% of people. I realise that the industry giants at Google or Mozilla don't really care about people like me ('life style business' is usually a term of derision on HN). In a world of web based operating systems that only run web apps I would end up stacking shelves in the supermarket or on the dole because I dislike that technology stack enough that I can't be productive in it. That is why sometimes I bitch about Javascript.