I am so shocked that people believe that before now, justice was just and the US Constitution was followed.
Do we honestly believe that every judge in the country was honest in the 1820's? The 1890's? During industrialization, before any form of workers rights -- are we going to sit here and believe that the average man got a fair shake in front of a judge every time?
Do we honestly believe that every man got a fair trial in the 1960's? That every black man who has stood in front of a white judge has, up until these modern revelations, has gotten a Constitutionally just trial?
I think this is exactly like autism. People think autism is occuring more, when in reality the understanding and awareness is growing, so the cases are being diagnosed more accurately.
What we're seeing today, for the first time in our history, is an honest assessment of how government operates.
Technology, specifically computers and networking, are a Pandora's Box. Government HAD to adopt it because the benefits are too good and they must be competitive on some level. But by adopting it, they've given us the opportunity to walk away with all of their secrets.
Frankly, I bet our governments have been cleaning themselves up over the past few decades, full well knowing the implications of technology.
When I think about McCarthyism and the Cold War, and the measures our government was willing to take... how much of those records were never kept or were destroyed? How much of abuse of our rights as citizens occurred in ways that can never be tracked or recorded?
I'm sure they control digital as best they can, but between Manning and Snowden, I think we've seen that it's uncontrollable, and we get to see more than we've ever seen before.
There's a libertarian religion that's got an upsurge from Paul's bid for presidency in 2008. It has a Hesiodic Ages of Man feel in how America has descended from the Golden Age of George Washington to the present suffering and misery of the Iron Age of the 21st century. Its creation myth is that the Constitution is a sacred and inviolable document of the ancient ages past and that its sole purpose was a magic spell that summoned and bound a Hobbesian demon called Government, and that the founding Wizard-Fathers of our past bid it do good, but our warding runes have been slowly failing over the last two centuries.
Schenck v. United States in 1919 is a good example. The phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" comes from that trial when they sent a guy to jail for passing out leaflets that opposed the WWI draft.
There was a Slate article today calling for the destruction of the remainder of the Snowden leaks since 'we already got the message'. No, this is evidence that will be taught in schools 100 years from now in history class of how terrible the surveillance state became.
You are right. Some people look wistfully back to some golden age that never existed, or only existed for WASPs.
That said, the difference between then and now is that the government has actively taken a position that severely curtails your fundamental rights with respect to electronic records. Your paper stuff, including mail, has 200 years of precedent protecting it. The electronic equivalents of these things have little protection, and the government has made that worse.
The other difference is the vast array of policing powers controlled by the Federal government. There's a massive web of laws, enforced by hundreds of police agencies. In 1890, most federal police were customs agents and deputized federal marshals.
We also invest a large amount of power in minimally accountable prosecutors. Contesting a federal prosecution is usually an exercise in futility.
I believe it's naive to think that paper stuff has centuries of protection.
Back before digital records, do you HONESLTY believe your mail was safe? Safe during the Cold War? Safe during Hoover's era in the 30's?
I truly believe that every form of communication, from mail to telegram to telephone to internet, has been repeatedly and intentionally violated throughout our history by our governments and by other parties.
Hell, there's no way to prove it. It was switch boards. It was men walking into rooms. There's no records of it. There's no proof.
But I think it's utterly silly to pretend that mail has been safe, or telephone, or anything.
I honestly believe it's all been watched, when it was convenient, for our entire history.
I'm a pretty cynical person. There have been incidental abuses with mail, systematic abuses with telegrams (the predecessor to the NSA read them), and lots of telephone abuses (which were addressed by strict wiretapping laws).
Mail is fairly tamper evident. When the government read your mail to Eastern Europe or the Soviet Union, they usually re-enveloped it and put a notice on it. Non-spy agencies had to have a warrant.
It's paper and cheap glue, I'd be surprised if that defeated our clandestine organizations. The point of spying is that the target doesn't know they're being spied on.
Do we honestly believe that every judge in the country was honest in the 1820's? The 1890's? During industrialization, before any form of workers rights -- are we going to sit here and believe that the average man got a fair shake in front of a judge every time?
Do we honestly believe that every man got a fair trial in the 1960's? That every black man who has stood in front of a white judge has, up until these modern revelations, has gotten a Constitutionally just trial?
I think this is exactly like autism. People think autism is occuring more, when in reality the understanding and awareness is growing, so the cases are being diagnosed more accurately.
What we're seeing today, for the first time in our history, is an honest assessment of how government operates.
Technology, specifically computers and networking, are a Pandora's Box. Government HAD to adopt it because the benefits are too good and they must be competitive on some level. But by adopting it, they've given us the opportunity to walk away with all of their secrets.
Frankly, I bet our governments have been cleaning themselves up over the past few decades, full well knowing the implications of technology.
When I think about McCarthyism and the Cold War, and the measures our government was willing to take... how much of those records were never kept or were destroyed? How much of abuse of our rights as citizens occurred in ways that can never be tracked or recorded?
I'm sure they control digital as best they can, but between Manning and Snowden, I think we've seen that it's uncontrollable, and we get to see more than we've ever seen before.