> If you're going to get a bike for 20-50 EUR don't expect it to be some kind of fancy machine.
If you're getting a bike for as little as 20 EUR, except it to be stolen, if it is not obviously a "frankenbike" made from spare parts of discarded half-bikes. I have no respect for people that buy stolen bikes (yet many people do).
The bikes I've owned (they do get stolen a lot ...) were usually about 100-150 EUR for a sturdy no-frills "grandma bike". I might be able to get one cheaper second-hand if I looked harder, but when I'm without a bike, I really do need a new one quickly because it's my main means of getting around in the city, cars are inefficient (in the city) and public transport quickly adds up the costs you might as well have spent on that new (or second-hand) bike.
Amsterdam might not be a good example though, I've heard from my friends that live there it's annoying to get around in the touristic city centre, because of the tourists. Not even so much because the foreign tourists aren't used to bikes, but (from my own experience) tourists generally walk around in groups and Amsterdam's sidewalks are small, so they just sort of spill everywhere.
BTW I have never seen a "cars are guests" sign, anyone know what cities have those?
Here's a funny video of an American tourist reacting to the car-free city centre of Groningen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7gi2RxM1Qg (I'm aware it's not really representative of the typical American tourist, don't worry, but it's quite amusing still :) also for accuracy: the centre is not completely car-free; taxis, buses, police, ambulances etc are allowed, and there's a sort of maze of one-way streets that cars can take if they really need to be somewhere, except for the roads directly next to the very central city square)
I admit I buy bikes that are propably stolen. I lost one very expensive and one half that but still expansive bikes and I knew I would never get them back. They propably left the country. Now I still want to drive a mountain bike but I won't let them steal them for the 3rd time...that would be stupid. Thats why I buy them on the net, from newspapers or on flea markets for cheap. I am sorry for the guys whos bikes those propably are but as I don't expect anyone to give me my bike back by reporting it to the police on the other side of europe, I think realistic people should not expect me to buy the bike and bring it to the Police...those guys are advertising openly. If the Police is not giving a damn, why should I? I'm not a milionaire or Robin Hood.
>>. Thats why I buy them on the net, from newspapers or on flea markets for cheap
As a person who had a really expensive bike stolen - I would never buy a bike from those places, I would not want to finance any criminal activity.
If you want to buy a cheap bike there are charities which sell them, and these bike will never be stolen since they are given to a charity for free, so why would you steal a bike to give it away for free? And they the charity fixes it up and sells it for 30-40 euros so they are cheap and reliable.
> As a person who had a really expensive bike stolen - I would never buy a bike from those places, I would not want to finance any criminal activity.
This is kind of a prisoners dilemma. You don't buy, others will, and you won't stop anyone, only hurt yourself financially. Problem must be solved in other ways, because "voting with your wallet" is not always effective way.
It's not always about efficiency. It's about just not being part of it for moral reasons. You can't not support something ideologically but still partake in the activity without being hypocritical.
> You can't not support something ideologically but still partake in the activity without being hypocritical.
I can think of many situations where you could. And economic benefit often outweighs any ideology in places where people barely make it to the next paycheck.
We don't have that kind of charity places here in germany or in my town. Edit: Even if we had, I wouldn't go there. I may not be a millionaire but I am not poor also. I am sure there are poor people who would need that bikes more then me.
Don't understand me wrong. I understand that I support the crime that hurt me in the first place. I am not stupid but when I see how the Police gave up on that kind of crime, why should I still support it with new bikes? I rather support them with the small ammount of money instead and still have my mountainbike and am not that angry when it gets stolen again.
I think there is a difference here though. By buying cheap bikes which might have been stolen, you can be supporting criminals which then see it as a profitable activity. If you buy a new bike you are not encouraging crime,because nobody will steal it if there is no place to sell it.
And I am pretty sure the police haven't given up on that crime, it's just easy to get away with it. When my bike was stolen a police officer came over and took the frame serial number,a picture of the bike and I do know they look around - I have been stopped on my bike before by the police who were looking for stolen bikes. It's just that those bikes can be easily packed on a truck and taken to another country,where no one will care, and there is no method to track a bike abroad, there should be a database with frame numbers that would be shared internationally.
Edit: And those charities are not just for poor people. The one where I live has all the bikes for sale arranged neatly in a shop, the only difference is that all of them have been donated, they fixed them and now they are selling them for reasonable amount of money to help people in need.
Yes, I did also go to the Police with my frame numbers. I also heard of people who know people who got their bike back...if you know what I mean.
As I said, when a criminal act reached the point where the (possible) criminals advertise their goods openly (in newspapers, on the net, on flea markets), I think they just crossed the line. They a) seem to be sure to not be cauth and b) have already enough customers. So with my decision to not give them 100€ but "give" them a new bike worth 10-times that, I support their established market even more.
When I was ~15, I idioticly tried to sell a box full of my copied C64 games. I have been visited by some undercover cops who sued my parents for very much money. I never tried that again...
I think the 'charity' part is not towards the buyer. There may not be any near your place, but the concept is you give a free item to the charity, someone buys it for a price, and the profit is used for people in need.
That doesn't make sense -- if the police really don't care, why you just steal one? It seems to me, that apart from having no ethical sense, you're simply a coward.
Quit rationailzing your behavior -- either sin boldly or stop doing it.
They probably didn't leave the country they probably left the area you live in and were sold on the net, via newspaper or in flea markets to someone who justified buying stolen goods in exactly the same way you just did.
Maybe they did leave just the area. Did not change anything for my legaly bouth and stolen bikes. They are gone and never returned.
Don't understand me wrong. I understand that I support the crime that hurt me in the first place. I am not stupid but when I see how the Police gave up on that kind of crime, why should I still support it with new bikes? I rather support them with the small ammount of money instead and still have my mountainbike and am not that angry when it gets stolen again.
It's only 20-30 euros more for a decent non-stolen second-hand bike, if you look around a bit.
Unless the stolen bikes you buy are in fact so cheap you can't have any possible doubt they are in fact stolen and you might as well steal them yourself.
If you're getting a bike for as little as 20 EUR, except it to be stolen, if it is not obviously a "frankenbike" made from spare parts of discarded half-bikes. I have no respect for people that buy stolen bikes (yet many people do).
The bikes I've owned (they do get stolen a lot ...) were usually about 100-150 EUR for a sturdy no-frills "grandma bike". I might be able to get one cheaper second-hand if I looked harder, but when I'm without a bike, I really do need a new one quickly because it's my main means of getting around in the city, cars are inefficient (in the city) and public transport quickly adds up the costs you might as well have spent on that new (or second-hand) bike.
Amsterdam might not be a good example though, I've heard from my friends that live there it's annoying to get around in the touristic city centre, because of the tourists. Not even so much because the foreign tourists aren't used to bikes, but (from my own experience) tourists generally walk around in groups and Amsterdam's sidewalks are small, so they just sort of spill everywhere.
BTW I have never seen a "cars are guests" sign, anyone know what cities have those?
Here's a funny video of an American tourist reacting to the car-free city centre of Groningen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7gi2RxM1Qg (I'm aware it's not really representative of the typical American tourist, don't worry, but it's quite amusing still :) also for accuracy: the centre is not completely car-free; taxis, buses, police, ambulances etc are allowed, and there's a sort of maze of one-way streets that cars can take if they really need to be somewhere, except for the roads directly next to the very central city square)