We actually are getting somewhere by complaining. By everyone (everywhere, not just here) talking about it it's built a momentum of public awareness about such programs in the U.S. that has never existed before despite other past revelations about domestic surveillance.

Public interest in the subject has led to more coverage and more investigative journalists digging up additional details. Public outrage has led to the government acknowledging portions of it publicly and providing even more details in secret to Congress, some of which has already leaked.

Because of the events of the past week and a half, the government is already being more (but far from fully) transparent on the subject than ever before.

Now, I'm not saying this is specifically because we're talking about it on HN, but without public interest it would fade away and return to business as usual. It is of special interest to the technology community, so it makes sense that this would be a primary point to discuss it as it continues to develop.

Finally, it's clear that many people do want to talk about it, because they upvote those stories to the top and comment on them extensively. If you don't want to discuss them, don't upvote them and submit things that interest you instead. Other stories are still making it to the front page as well.

We've seen this with companies as well as with government: One of the things they still respond to is outsized pressure. Perhaps at its most basic, the fear that people will quit them. (Lost business, lost good will, lost votes.)

A few years ago, there was a lot of outrage about Facebook's relentless "publification" of user data. And it did produce some at least temporary retraction as well as some degree of redesign.

In lieu of other mechanisms and options, people are "voting" with their voice. And past a certain volume, this appears to produce some success with respect to the concerns of those voices.

Remember a year ago, when the front page was full of SOPA posts and commentary? Well, that appears to have led to something that -- at least temporarily -- was in favor of the majority of those posting.

"60 Minutes" [1], for and by the masses. Tick tick tick tick...

----

[1] A prominent U.S. TV news / investigative journalism program. (I think it's now been somewhat internationalized, or "franchised".) Although its credibility has come increasingly into question in recent years. Its opening segment and transitions display a ticking stopwatch.

Some of its stories have been credited with producing significant private and public policy shifts -- in perception, or substance, or both.

You're not "that guy". The onslaught of political stories about NSA surveillance is so severe that the people who'd normally be piping up alongside you have given up.

HN is to the point where it pretty much needs subreddits (or a basic version of them, like the "Ask" section) to continue to not suck.

A point for you sir: complaining is not the way of solving a problem. Still the complaining is symptomatic of discomfort in the community for this facts; and discomfort, my good friend, is rich soil for solutions.

The best way of moving on is enabling creativity.

Thats true, NSA related stories have been flooding the front pages of hacker news for the last two weeks. I don't mind a couple of posts but when every other story is related to the news, it gets dry fast.

We are, apparently, about this right now.