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Americans won't so much as lift their head away from Candycrush to bat an eyelash about it.

If there were enough give-a-shit left in America, I don't think things would have gotten so bad to begin with. It's a broken, battered, unemployed, bankrupt, bitter nation being drown by a behemoth $6.3 trillion government system that nothing could possibly contain or restrain. The NSA has a budget the size of the economy of half the nations on earth.

Far easier to go back to playing Candycrush than try to do anything about the MASSIVE mess that is America.



Thats the real issue. People are really apathetic to the situation. Frequent response when brought up is that they have nothing to hide and it only makes them safer. But its not just the government's fault, we have news media driven by ad dollars. Fear drives viewership up and is good for business. If these programs weren't popular, our politicians wouldn't get elected. In our times, if your "soft" on terror, its like automatic disqualification in terms of getting elected.


What is your suggestion for "doing something?" I can't help that most Americans are wrongly educated about thinks like civil rights.


The absolute easiest thing? Outrage + phone calls / letters.

It would take a mere 1% of the US population to give a shit, and it would light D.C. up like a Christmas tree. Bury their phones and inboxes in just a few hundred thousand calls and emails per day and every member of Congress would instantly stand to attention and respond positive.

It's such a trivial % of the overall population as to be disgusting that it probably can't be mustered.

Next step down the line, Americans need to start caring about their civil liberties again. They need to start caring about their privacy again. They need to stop buying into the fake war on terror and drugs. They need to elect a President that isn't a fraud, someone who will use executive order powers - if necessary - to aggressively break the police state and domestic espionage racket. The US Federal Government is extraordinarily violent and militarized. It has to be de-militarized, and you could only do that by abolishing the military industrial complex. It'd require a President to openly talk to the US public about what was happening and why, it'd have to be a public conversation. This, realistically, can never happen until there's a collapse (leaving a vacuum of respected authority).

In a word, Americans need to take back responsibility for their own well being, and stop trusting that the government will fix or solve the destruction of the last decade (which the government caused). The key phrase is personal responsibility, it can't start anywhere else.

As an aside... there's always a lot of back and forth discussion here about Socialism vs Capitalism, the concept of big government, etc. You know why America can't emulate the Nordic model? Culturally, to its core, we have an aggressive, violent government (busy waging war 24/7 in a dozen countries). You know what happens when you have a BIG government that is aggressive and violent? It was a fantasy to ever think that aggression would always just point overseas.


Calling politicians won't work if both sides are called upon. They can work out a message to tell the public about how they're against spying but it will go on regardless. Money trumps everything. If there is economic or military incentive for something to be done - it will be done.

The only hope is to economically empower everyone so that a small elite doesn't form.


I actually disagree that this wouldn't help (but see below). It isn't really that easy for Congressmembers to respond to. If 1% of the population of every Congressional district called in over the next week, it would likely put real time pressure on Congressional offices.

There are two problems:

1. If we don't call in the only people talking to Congress are those with the money interest, and they can go after the easiest targets. This is why money currently trumps everything.

2. These form part of the economic structure that keeps the small elite in power.

Now, I totally agree with you when you say "The only hope is to economically empower everyone so that a small elite doesn't form." The problem is we have been running the wrong direction since the 30's (I think Roosevelt-era social democracy lead directly to Reagan-era neoliberalism) and with the over-regulation of small businesses and the under-regulation of large businesses that is a tremendous uphill battle.

If you sit down and map out the scope of corporate control over our individual lives, you will probably come to the same conclusion I have, that this is not only the vital struggle of our day, but is one we are badly loosing.


Indeed. Nothing is going to change until there is a collapse. Even then I fear what fills the power void will be worse than what you have now. The reason no one cares is because most Americans are in a comatose state. I've traveled to most US cities and some places in between and it continues to shock me just how stupid the average american is. They're drugged out on corn syrup, anti-depressants, street drugs and seemingly not educated at all about the rest of the world.

I know that sounds like I'm talking trash and being racist but this is a real problem. This should be talked about. America need to get its population healthy again, so they can think straight, be productive and create a better future. Long term it is in no ones interest to have a population of people this stupid.


Comatose is a good description. It's worth noting that those things you list are masks. Americans over-eat, abuse prescription drugs, etc. to hide from, effectively, the last 40 years (and what it has led to). The US standard of living has fallen massively since 1970. In the late 1960s our minimum wage was the equivalent of nearly $50,000 in today's dollars.

But you're wrong, the average American isn't stupid. You clearly haven't spent enough time with 'average' people. I know a lot of people that fall into the average camp in most respects, they're absolutely not stupid. Being drugged out on anti-depressants doesn't make someone stupid. Making poor choices also does not make someone stupid. In fact, you betray an embarrassing ignorance in saying so.

The average American is responsible for one the most productive economies in history (while simultaneously being the largest in history). Said average American manages to live in the most diverse large nation in history, while not constantly murdering each other in the streets by the millions. It's quite a feat that is likely to never be repeated again.

What you said isn't racist. American isn't a race.

I can't fathom however, the arrogance it takes to call hundreds of millions of people stupid. What does that make the other 5.5 billion people with combinations of little to no formal education, running water, indoor plumbing, that are frequently barely literate etc etc etc? That qualifies a billion people in China as being, what exactly, retarded? It's impossible, and ignorant, to label individuals that way.


Do you have a citation showing a fall in standard of living since 1970?


Elizabeth Warren's research would be a good place to start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A#t=8m25s


Sorry, I wish I had time to watch an hour-long YouTube video :( I was hoping that, if this claim were true, it would be easy to demonstrate with a graph or some numbers.


I linked to a relevant time stamp which has a graph and presumably "some numbers".


@adventured Maybe you haven't travelled outside America enough to notice?

You make the mistake of correlating wealth with the intelligence of the average person. The average person did not build the businesses that made America. And capital is a powerful tool, properly managed it grows exponentially.

By the way the average Chinese person is starter than the average American. Intelligence is not the same as education. Nor does having running water make you any smarter than someone who does not.

IQ's by nation. http://www.sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm


How would a Queenslander even be able to judge the intelligence of others?


:) you caught me. Fair call.



That's the thing with the "average American" (or in my case, the "average Dutchman"). For every intelligent, free-thinking mind on HN there's a bunch of morons dragging the average down!


The average is very important in a democracy. They can vote. Or choose not to!


Get away from the USD that American government is using to keep it's power. Get away from the banking system. Buy physical silver, gold (not ETF) or bitcoins.

The earlier everybody starts doing it the sooner the inevitable USD crash will happen.


The USD implosion will bring down the US Government, and it will end the unsustainable spending spree that pays for our expanding police state (and the NSA's Utah datacenter).

There isn't much time left on the clock. I'd say the Fed has less than 12 to 24 months before the next disaster hits, given the way the real estate and stock market bubbles have already been re-inflated. They won't be able to control rates much longer without losing control on the inflation wave flowing into housing and commodities (eg with oil now being 'normal' at $90). The next crash, which is inevitable, will be back breaking. It'll require the Feds to choose between over-funding the military and police state, or paying for social security and similar services.


Which nation is resisting these intrusions?


I didn't mean to imply it was unique to America. The sad thing is that it's a negative global shift against privacy. America's outsized influence on the world does bury it in responsibility for being a terrible role model / setting a bad precedent.

Seemingly all industrialized nations are dealing with these exact things at the same time (no coincidence, as it's being spurred by technology that is nearly universally available).


The United States used to. Remember we got FISA as a way of containing the intrusions (like that worked).




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