What do you recommend as a first book to read?

(edit: never mind, sibling thread has it covered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5485695 )

If you LOVE science fiction already, I'd go straight for the jugular and start with Excession. It's hardcore, it's full of awesome technology, it will blow your mind and forever seduce you into the world of the Culture.

If you're just a normal science fiction fan, start with Use of Weapons. It's complex and sci-fi-ish enough, but not as hardcore as Excession. The plot is amazing. To me it is one of the most memorable books of science fiction that I've read. It really made me question some basic beliefs about ... well, you'll see.

If you're a normal person, who wants a slightly softer intro into the Culture universe, or someone who's not particularly into science fiction, Player of Games is a great starting point because it is less about the tech and more about the ideas and the people, but nevertheless a great book.

Ultimately, the only one I wouldn't start with is Consider Phlebas, which is good, but imho nowhere near as good as the rest. To me, Consider Phlebas was about the same level as, say, the Reality Dysfunction by PFH - great space opera, fast paced, gripping, but not exceptional in any way. Every subsequent book (with very few exceptions) is not just great, but also unique and different from all the other science fiction books out there.

This isn't a good context in which to wax lyrical about how completely I fail to get why people like Iain Banks's SF, so I'll skip the ranting, but I'd love to have someone convince me what there is to like.

A loved one loves Banks, so I've tried really hard to get it, and I've failed. I recently read Excession and got zero value out of it. Also recently read Feersum Endjin; it was alright, but suffered from the same flaws as other Banks. I did enjoy The Algebraist, though I read it a while ago so it's a bit foggy. I also read, once upon a time, Consider Phlebas and Player of Games, and remember being utterly utterly disappointed in both, but I can't remember anything more than that.

Thanks for this - I read Consider Phlebas and was very underwhelmed by it. Just now I struggled to remember much of the plot even though I read it less than a year ago. I'll check out some of your other recommendations.

> I read Consider Phlebas and was very underwhelmed by it.

Huh. Same here. I've only read CP and I honestly could not tell why everyone is so excited about Banks.

Okay then, I'll add a few more titles to my wish list. Thanks!

Consider Phlebas was sort of a literary lark. Start with Player of Games. Also, it all only works if you like the idea of The Culture. Really, it's the main character of all of the books. If you aren't cheering for The Culture, the books aren't going to work for you.

Consider Phlebas is more of a literary novel that happens to take place in the future. I like all of Banks' work and thinkSwombat's suggested reading order above is spot on, but I also think Consider Phlebas is by far his best work.

My fav is Look to Windward, but you needed to be entrenched in the world to get a lot out of that book.

I still haven't been able to make myself finish Matter yet.

I loved Matter. It drags on for the first half (like many of his books), but once it gets started, boy does it go!

The title is awfully well chosen, too. The full title would probably be: "Matter? It doesn't"

Not the future. The Culture books happen rougly in the present day (although across a timespan of many centuries; CP is set 800 years before the other novels, The Hydrogen Sonata several centuries after Excession), and there is even a short story about The Culture encountering Earth.

Silly nitpick: doesn't Consider Phlebas take place in our past?

Depends where you think humanity-on-Earth sits relative to the Culture. Since most of the Culture is human and we on Earth are as yet unaware of any spacefaring civilizations, I view it as a possible future for humanity. I would not be surprised if we encounter other life in space, but I'd be extremely startled if it turned out to be human life.

Pretty sure our present is post-Idiran-war based on the short story in The State Of The Art.

EDIT: I should specify that Contact is working on present-day Earth in that story, from what I recall.

Oh, you're right as an in-world thing. But I meant this sort of high technology described is in our future, ie I'm using 'in the future' as a proxy for 'science fiction.' Sorry about the confusion.

In cannon, Earth is an un-contacted planet and the Culture isn't our future. They are out there now.

Though, obviously, as a literary device you are right.

yes. And It makes a lot more sense if you're already familiar with the Culture, in which case the perspective of CP (from an avowed enemy of the Culture) is a lot more interesting. A prequel of sorts, but one I'd almost read last.

Funnily though, I started with consider Phelbas, and it was good enough to keep me involved, the ending and the emotion it dripped has made me think about it in a different way, and far more than any of the other books, except maybe Use of Weapons.

Excession was quite a flourish, and deliciously fun.

Thanks for the recommendations. I just finished The Player of Games and was about to start Consider Phlebas. Now I'll have to consider whether to tackle Excession or Use of Weapons instead.

Consensus seems to be Player of Games but I have to say my first one was Use of Weapons, which I picked up from a book store in London on a whim, one weekday lunchtime in the late 90s. It's a fantastic starting point.

I won't tell you which one I recommend reading first, but I would recommend reading 4 or 5 before hitting "Against a dark background".

That book is really hard on the emotions. I have a feeling it may have been a bit of an experiment for Iain as it reads a bit differently from the rest (I think I've read every book he has out currently, including "Raw Spirit"... Brilliant book)

Oh, and the top comment in the sibling thread you linked to is a very good recommendation.

Read this page first as an amazing introduction to the Culture:

http://nuwen.net/culture.html

I wouldn't. It's amazing only after you've read some of the books and familiarised yourself with it. Any teenage SF fan can come up with some kind of crazy and awesome-sounding universe, but turning it into a series of dozens of amazing novels is another thing altogether!

I rank him in my top tier of writers along with John Barnes.

Excellent call-out on Barnes; he's one of the most under-rated authors out there.

If you haven't read his stuff, pick it up.

I think the only novel of his I read was Finity, and that kind of turned me off.

Not all of his work is great, but the "Thousand Cultures" series and "Century Next Door" series are the great reads.

Note: The dark anti-hero in "Kaleidoscope Century" is probably the reason he hasn't won many major awards. You can't write such a character and not piss off the various sci-fi author and fandom cliches.

Agreed. Barnes can go dark - REALLY dark.

The Directive 51 universe is really dark, but has a ton of great ideas and great writing.

Thank you, I'll check them out

I only just started reading the Culture, after the first book I was already hooked. He is a great writer.

Here's Banks explaining the Culture, which is a great background that isn't even in the books.

http://nuwen.net/culture.html