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These aren't related items so there's no comparison.

Let's say you publish a blog post guide on how to set up a MySql cluster and I use that as part of DevOps contract work for a company. Do I owe you money?

What if I form an opinion because of a political piece you published then produce my own blog post?

AI use of public data to produce new information is exactly what we do as people.



LLMs don't form an opinion, they simply regurgitate the opinions of others.


People also do that.


And it's forbidden to do that in certain contexts. Selling a service that regurgitate licensed content is neither legal for humans or machines. German court just reminded OpenAI:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45886131


But people get earworms and sing songs out loud that they don't own rights to.


The minute it becomes feasible for the RIAA to charge you a fee every time you have a song playing in your head you can bet they'll be sending you a bill or a legal threat. They'll even come after you for singing when it's profitable enough.


Copyright and performance rights are two separate things. It's completely fine for me to go and perform (not record - that does need a license) the latest hit song until my heart is content.


> It's completely fine for me to go and perform (not record - that does need a license) the latest hit song until my heart is content.

Only in private. Copyright law can give the owner exclusive rights to perform a song publicly. If the lawyers can convince a judge that your singing counts as a public performance you can end up on the hook for not getting or being covered under a performance license.

https://lawwithmiller.com/blogs/copyrights/cover-me-im-legal...


The right to quote allows the use of copyrighted text with limits that are followed by OpenAI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_quote

I think your copyright argument is focused on media, like music. This appears be a specific exception that applies to text. Music sampling for example is a direct copy of the recording but quoting text, even though it's a copy, is a new work because although the words are the same it's not the original copied (as in the quote is written or typed by OpenAI).


It absolutely is not. This is completely wrong.


People may do that, but that's all LLMs can do.


Do you mean they simply paste information obtained without citation?

Because if you ask for an opinion on a subject it generates new information itself based on the data gathered.

It does sometimes quote sources, which are properly noted and attributed, but how is that wrong? People write books (for money) all the time and reference sources.

I'm not understanding why you think the LLM is different from a person in how it uses information to produce new work.


If posed a novel problem, I think they would generate a new opinion.


No I mean we're in the same community, and perhaps next thing I do is I answer a related question on Stack Overflow that you or someone else can use. Everyone wins, including you, because by writing you also get to structure your thoughts better and perhaps discover some new way.

I mean the degree of use or exchange should matter.


The problem is that StackOverflow can rug-pull you (and the community) at any time.

Things that come to mind:

- adding 'account required' screens so information is harder to access

- harvesting/selling that ip without your explicit consent (although you agreed in the TCs)


I don't understand the issue.

I gave an example of where I'm using your info for my benefit in a different community.

Why does it matter that AI is in the same community, doesn't that actually help my argument because its information is more public?


I want to be part of a community of people. And for decades, that's what sharing information online one.

A third party coming in and saying "hey, everybody stop talking to each other, just talk to us and we'll intermediate and eventually replace every interaction between you, and charge money for it, and fill it up with advertising and eventual enshittification" is not aligned with my goals there at all.


Nostr is a place where we're trying to make that happen.

3rd parties can still come in and try to offer value. But they can not sit between your interactions as clients are interchangeable


That's not happening.

No one is forcing us to exclusively provide information to AI

AI isn't the sole source of information nor are you forced to use it.

The internet is already full of advertising and shit


> AI isn't the sole source of information nor are you forced to use it.

I mean, it's now embedded in all our search engines, so it's kind of hard to obtain information without invoking the hallucination-generating machine


So the problem is with search engines, not the communities they index.

Parent said:

> A third party coming in and saying "hey, everybody stop talking to each other, just talk to us and we'll intermediate and eventually replace every interaction between you, and charge money for it

which doesn't seem to be the case in forums and message boards.


So isn't that the real issue for you? It it wasn't being pushed so heavily would you care as much?

It's like pre installed apps or forced browsers, they cause a pushback where the arguments are all monopolistic but the reality is user annoyance.


Yeah, I mean, in the last year every search engine, every browser, every SaaS app I have to use for work... They have all compromised their UX to put a chat bot front-end-centre. And in the majority of cases, that chat bot doesn't seem to enable any new use-cases. It's just bandwagoning...




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