I have a former friend who listened to too many podcasts and self-diagnosed himself as autistic right around when his relationship was falling apart. The guy couldn't handle his girlfriend asking him to step up on some things so he decided his "out" socially was to call himself autistic to garner sympathy. The dude isn't autistic, he is simply terrible at accepting any responsibility for himself and doesn't care how that affects others. That was my first exposure to how out of control autism labeling was about to become and it's gotten a lot worse since then.
Unfortunately, many autistic people also get misunderstood to be irresponsible and lazy. They are also unable to understand other person's feelings and are thought to lack empathy, even though it is just that they are unable to recognize social cues.
So with just this information it is hard to say if your friend is indeed autistic or not. It would need a more professional diagnosis to say either way.
This is good advice - I always struggled but managed, then one day I just broke. Decided to do the thing everyone says and get some help. The therapist after a session was suggesting autism and some other stuff mixed in, because of the internet arm chair mental health crowd I was skeptical. I also know some people that are obviously autistic, and a good friend who's autistic and schizophrenic which made me feel like I have nothing to complain about, I'm obviously "fine." But, since the shrink kept mentioning it, I opted for the neuro-psych exam to get a more concrete diagnosis and indeed high functioning autism is there.
It's been interesting to see the therapy (and meds for the other problems) working. Now that we know, my wife has had some therapy to help support her and help her support me - and it's been wonderful. Understanding wtf is going on made it easier to talk about, address, and improve. It's an on-going thing but talking to qualified people was the first step.
Yes, it’s similar with ADHD as well. You really should seek a professional diagnosis before going around claiming it.
Even then you’re not free of the consequences. Sometimes just have to push yourself and say learn to bite your tongue to not blurt out an insensitive thing. What a diagnosis does give is knowing that yes it’ll be harder, to have patience with yourself, and to learn coping mechanisms.
Ironically, sometimes the worst criticism autistic or adhd people get though are from family or friends with undiagnosed autism or adhd themselves. Because they have to work so hard to mask they become very critical of people with legitimate diagnosis.
In many places getting an adult ADHD diagnosis is near impossible. I was diagnosed at age 8 personally, but I now live in a country where adult ADHD is borderline not acknowledged as even existing, and I know people have to fight very hard to get diagnosed and even harder to get access to medication if they can get it at all.
There can also be palpable downsides to having a diagnosis at all, eg in my birth country everyone with an ADHD or Asperger's diagnosis is legally required to pay for medical evaluation out of pocket to be allowed to get a driver's license and will face medical reevaluation on renewal as well.
It's not always great in the US despite it being acknowledged and somewhat accepted. It's gotta be really rough in a country that doesn't accept adhd. Ouch, a medical evaluation might make sense, but to have to pay for it out of pocket, ouch.
Though on the flipside in some countries the doctors don't care what meds they prescribe. It's very strange how things vary by coubtry. Some are absurd.
I guess my comment assumes the US where it has perhaps become a bit "trendy" as the OP suggested. I will say that when possible most ADHD'ers or aspergers do benefit from professional guidance.
Guidance definitely can be helpful. Of course it's important that the possibility exists; Ihhave high functioning AuDHD and without extra support I probably wouldn't have made it as far as I have, but there's shadow sides to "support" as well. From a very young age I had to constantly play manipulative games one way towards social workers to present myself as adequately dysfunctional to qualify for financial support that my (poor, single parent) family desperately needed, and on the other hand as more "normal" than I really was to counteract my elementary school that was convinced I should go to special education and went out of their way to contact my prospective middle/high school and try to talk them out of accepting me for instance (I ended up doing the honors track in secondary education and getting a BSc after).
I'm sure a lot of those shadow sides disappear in adulthood when one is more in control over one's own destiny but so do a lot of the benefits (eg workplace accommodations aren't nearly at the same level as school accommodations and unfortunately I'm convinced the vast majority of ADHDers/Aspies are better off not telling people at work).
It's hard to say what to make of the whole "trendy" thing, for every such person I know I know several others who are definitely on the spectrum but undiagnosed. I do think in our culture we have an unhealthy tendency to jump from "this is difficult for me" to "something is wrong with me" but on the other hand executive function or sensory difficulties are something many people experience from time to time and if "I'm a little bit autistic/ADHD" is people's best way of describing what they're going through then I don't want to silence them, because I know those difficulties are real and I have a lot of sympathy for that.
In an ideal world we'd be able to talk about the symptoms without having to reach for the syndromes, but that requires a level of experiential insight and standardized nomenclature and especially sympathy on a population level that's just not really there yet.
If you just tell people you struggle with procrastination or have analysis paralysis or get too sensorily overwhelmed by sounds or smells or the office environment to function people do still often treat each other like they're snowflake wusses that need to grit their teeth and pull their bootstraps or whatever.
The fact that this is all just part of "the human condition" often just hardens people more ("I had to grit my teeth and bear it's only fair you do the same"). Putting people in an exceptional "disease" bucket gives some respite from that, would that it be otherwise.
Better to acknowledge that there's nothing special about being diseased, there's nothing wrong with being diseased. We are all diseased and we all deserve and benefit from care. Those that don't think so should try talking to an older person ;-).
I think that part of the problem is fear of discrimination if your permanent medical record contains a diagnosis of autism. Its very conceivable that, now or in the future, a diagnosis could inhibit ones ability to immigrate, hold certain jobs, or get affordable health insurance.
Anyone who has experience with an autistic person can figure out pretty quickly that they have empathy if they try. When you tell an autistic person that you are feeling some way or another explicitly they will usually respond with empathy. But if you are just dropping subtle hints or using body language they will assume everything is okay.
I don't see the point in asking that question as his friend self-diagnosed himself as "autistic". Jsbi, I assume, is expressing doubt in the self-diagnosis rather than diagnosising his former friend.
I get it. Mental health issues have not been taken seriously in the past to say the least. And we're better off when people can openly talk about them without being ostracized. But you can definitely swing too far in the other direction. I keep meeting people who are almost bragging with their claimed collection of mental illnesses as if it's a lifestyle choice.
This still aligns to what I said no? He himself is expressing doubt with his own reasoning why. Either way it doesn't matter as the assumption shouldn't be his former friend is autistic by default.
The poster is claiming without any evidence other than the "friend" was "self-diagnosed", which doesn't tell us if the "friend" was right, or not, and adding that they knew the diagnosis was wrong because of other claimed attributes.
I'm honestly shocked at the response to me pointing that out.
If you want to go round making judgements on peoples' mental health without any qualification to do so, and post that judgement on social media (which Hacker News is) then I will call you out for that, every time I notice.
People come to these comments claiming to be all about science, all about serious thinking that's not found on other social media, but then this trash gets posted and people calling it out get attacked.
No, he pointed out how over-saturation of autism awareness has resulted in people self-diagnosing as a way to absolve themselves of shitty behavior.
My step-son is diagnosed. He is on the spectrum. He was non-verbal for longer than most children and low-verbal for years after that. He has fine-motor challenges and operates on an emotional level behind those of his peers.
If he's being an ass, we let him know. He knows his condition is not an excuse for his behavior. He needs to know how to cope with and navigate the world around him. Autism awareness and advocacy is about not shaming people for wearing ear protection in public. It's about recognizing that texture aversion is a thing. It's about knowing to extend grace when appropriate. It's not about letting people be shitty.
He may be autistic, but he does not get to interrupt us. He does not get to derail conversations into his interests. He does not get to ignore his hygiene. Instead, we try to teach him to be patient. To be polite. Strategies to make necessary things a part of his routine.
The biggest difference is that we do these things with compassion and with the realization that some things are more difficult for him. Rather than what we did in the past, which was browbeat autistic people into masking.
No, he made a diagnosis - neither party appear to be in a position to do so.
You can disagree with someone's self diagnosis all you like, but there's absolutely NO WAY for you to make a diagnosis yourself unless you are actually qualified to do so.
Not to justify it but 1) your responses have been misunderstanding their point, even after a good explanation of it and 2) they had some of their comments down voted (IMO, probably because of how they expressed their perspective rather than because of what it is).
So it is (or rather, seems like to me) a double whammy psychology of having their point be demonstrably misunderstood while it is also (seemingly) being rejected by down votes. (Again, just explaining, not justifying.)
(Also, I cannot help but notice the irony(?) of this misunderstanding and the necessity of this explanation in a thread on a post about autism. No shade to anyone, just making the observation.)
First of all, I firmly believe you're a sock puppet.
Where is the "good explanation"?
The first thing he did was demand qualifications of the poster. Exclaiming he's diagnosing something. He started aggressive.
I then pointed out that his friend also made his self-diagnosis with the same qualifications.
He then got all huffy and basically said "So you agree his story is rubbish", which is also rather aggressive. And all through this, he's been dismissive and condescending to people. And everyone else has been rather polite to him even with his attitude.
And I don't think anyone is misunderstanding him. Everyone acknowledges his point that the poster is likely not a qualified professional. However, they are pointing out that neither is his friend. And I also pointed out, diagnosis or not, there's no excuse for being an asshole. Being autistic does not give you carte blanche to treat people like shit.
So it's more like his refusal to understand everyone else's point. And likely why he's getting downvoted. But that shouldn't matter. So, you know, stay awesome, dude.
It was in the comment four up from my first one in this thread.
> No, he made a diagnosis - neither party appear to be in a position to do so.
(They also gave other explanations elsewhere in the thread but that is what I was referring to because it is enough for a reader to understand the point and you actually replied to it.)
Their point is that the other commenter should not have written "The dude isn't autistic" because that is a negative diagnosis rather than an agnostic statement.
> So it's more like his refusal to understand everyone else's point.
Others were failing to make substantive points against the commenter in question because their point was going misunderstood. It took a few back-and-forths to get to the actual point (in fairness, that's because of the vagueness in their initial comment) but that point is consistent with what they've written in this thread.
> I firmly believe you're a sock puppet.
Genuinely, I read this as feedback that I empathized well given that I'm not. But especially because I disagree with their point. (The presumption that the first commenter meant "The dude's not diagnosed" is very reasonable and obviates the other commenter's point, except as a general reminder to be more careful with phrasing, which their question wasn't.)
> Genuinely, I read this as feedback that I empathized well given that I'm not. But especially because I disagree with their point. (The presumption that the first commenter meant "The dude's not diagnosed" is very reasonable and obviates the other commenter's point, except as a general reminder to be more careful with phrasing, which their question wasn't.)
FTR I read your initial comment as being critical (but fair) of my posts. How the person you are talking to missed that and jumped to you being me is quite the jump.
Honestly, re-reading everything, I think that paragraph is too harsh. In particular, that presumption of their intended meaning is not reasonable. They clearly meant "the dude's not autistic", which you correctly called out as a diagnosis. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Saying “the guy isn’t autistic” isn’t a diagnosis. Mostly because he isn’t a doctor. So harping on people making diagnoses ignores the larger issue of the person using a self-diagnosis of autism to excuse his own shitty behavior.
> Saying “the guy isn’t autistic” isn’t a diagnosis.
Actually, this is how a diagnosis could be phrased by a particularly informal doctor. You mean to say it's not a valid diagnosis because he's not a doctor, which is rather the point.
> ignores the larger issue
Indeed, they wrote a comment in reply to what I can only assume is a pet peeve (I do hear and read a lot of careless negative assertions like that where they are not warranted; it's a worthy pet peeve) to bring up a smaller issue in the context of the bigger picture, while otherwise not addressing the other point. I think it's a reasonable assumption that they meant to do that.
I guess to this point, didn't you notice me also doing that? I'm just commenting on the things I want to comment on. I haven't mentioned what I think of the friend in the story because I haven't seen a reason to. Everyone knows being entirely self-centered is shitty.
But since I'm here, I guess I should comment on it. I wonder about that person and what their problems are. Why would they do something so anti-social? It's likely there's something else going on. Perhaps more to the point, it's unlikely there's nothing going on. Maybe it's actually autism. The idea that it's nothing and they're "simply terrible at accepting responsibility" is naive and, frankly, disrespectful. It's sad to me that nobody's wondering about OP's friend and everybody just takes OP's story at face value. I mean, if OP isn't qualified to diagnose but readers just roll with their diagnosis anyway, it's rather obviously unfair to the friend who has a similarly-qualified claim but is assumed by their former friend to be a scumbag.
Well, you came here to defend another poster. Your initial address wasn't to the story itself, the poster in question, etc.
And I even mentioned that even if he were autistic, it's never an excuse. A diagnosis is a tool for self-reflection, not a get-out-of-trouble-free card. So he's still shitty for using a diagnosis as a reason to be shitty.
People are taking OP's story at face value because it doesn't warrant investigation. It's minor enough that even if he were lying, it doesn't matter. The story is banal enough that it's likely happened to someone at some point. It doesn't require the display of credentials or anything like that. And no one is asking us to do anything about either side. Dude was just sharing an anecdote. That's why people are taking it at face value. Because to do otherwise is to dedicate too much energy to something that doesn't matter.
> People are taking OP's story at face value because it doesn't warrant investigation. It's minor enough that even if he were lying, it doesn't matter. The story is banal enough that it's likely happened to someone at some point. It doesn't require the display of credentials or anything like that. And no one is asking us to do anything about either side. Dude was just sharing an anecdote. That's why people are taking it at face value. Because to do otherwise is to dedicate too much energy to something that doesn't matter.
Whatever it's worth to someone else to tell a lie, it's worth to me to correct it.
> So he's still shitty for using a diagnosis as a reason to be shitty.
You're getting one side of the story and saying that doesn't warrant investigation. Empathy is literally the opposite of that. You do not have any reason to believe the friend was being shitty. OP didn't provide that.
> First of all, I firmly believe you're a sock puppet.
Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.[1]
I have a former friend who listened to too many podcasts and self-diagnosed himself as autistic right around when his relationship was falling apart. The guy couldn't handle his girlfriend asking him to step up on some things so he decided his "out" socially was to call himself autistic to garner sympathy. The dude isn't autistic, he is simply terrible at accepting any responsibility for himself and doesn't care how that affects others. That was my first exposure to how out of control autism labeling was about to become and it's gotten a lot worse since then.