I’ve been working on https://phrasing.app for a while now, including many iterations of the SRS. It’s been my experience that most of these sorts of improvements are really imperceptible. While I use FSRS as a base, and I’m very happy with the results it provides, it’s really only a few percentage points off of the SM-2 algorithm from the 90s. It’s slightly less stressful, definitely more accurate, but I think only astute users would even notice the difference.
I’ve incorporated many different things into the SRS, from vector embeddings to graph based association to lemma clustering to morpheme linking, and was surprised how much of these I took out.
Most of the unlocks with the SRS have been more in application space. Doing reviews with Anki feels like a chore, and I’m always counting down the reviews left to do. Reviews with Phrasing however are much more addictive, and I routinely spent an extra 30+ minutes in that “ok just one more card” loop.
We will never be able to know with 100% certainty how well you know a card, but FSRS gets us darn close. I think the interesting stuff is less about improving that metric, and more about what can you do with that information.
Thanks to the whole FSRS team btw (I assume y’all will be reading this hn post) <3
There's a lot of UX work to do for SRS. Do you have a sense of how well the ideas behind Humane SRS translate outside of language learning? I imagine the main challenge would be identifying a steady influx of new cards.
I agree that gains in scheduling accuracy are fairly imperceptible for most students. That's why, over the past few years building https://rember.com, we've focused on UX rather than memory models. People who review hundreds of card a day definitely feel the difference, doing 50 fewer reviews per day is liberating. And now that LLMs can generate decent-quality flashcards, people will build larger and larger collections, so scheduler improvements might suddenly become much more important.
Ultimately, though, the biggest advantages is freeing the SRS designer. I'm sure you've grappled with questions like "is the right unit the card, the note, the deck or something else entirely?" or "what happens to the review history if the student edits a card?". You have to consider how review UX, creation/editing flows, and card organization interact. Decoupling the scheduler from these concerns would help a ton.
I would say probably 50% of the learnings from Humane SRS would be applicable in other fields/schedulers. There is another half that is language-specific though - at the end of the day, if you try to learn a language the same way you cram for a med school exam, you're probably not going to succeed. The inverse is also true, please nobody use Phrasing to cram for their med school exam XD
I agree most peoples collections get unwieldy and something needs to be done, so props to Rember! I take the opposite approach - instead of helping people manage large collections, I try to help people get the most out of small collections. This sort of thing is not possible in most fields outside of languages (I don't think — I cannot say I've given it any real thought though).
For example, the standard tier in Phrasing is 40 new Expressions per month. This should result in 2,000-3,500 words in a year, which would be a pretty breakneck pace for most learners, and is considered sufficient for fluency. Of course, users can learn Expressions other users have created for free, or subscribe to higher tiers, or buy credits outright, but it's often not needed.
Indeed Phrasing does not really use the idea of "cards," we reconstruct pseudo-cards based on the morphemes, lemmas, and inflections found within the Expression. So "cards" are indeed not the boundary I use.
That is an important insight. It is not so much which method gets you to learn more when used for a given amount of time. It is probably more about which method is fun to use, and engages you and thus actually gets used.
Can't help but repeat this old joke: A guy bought a gym-membership for 6 months, and paid $1000. But he was lazy (like most of us are) and never went or very rarely went to the gym, never felt like going there. After 6 months he realized he had wasted $1000. So he thought maybe if he bought the equipment himself he could and would do exercise at home. He bought the equipment for $1000, but then he rarelywent home. Didn't feel like it :-)
I've tried several different language learning apps, and the one I stick with is always the one with the best gamification even if it's not the #1 for things like explanation quality. It's all about what you'll actually do.
> That is an important insight. It is not so much which method gets you to learn more when used for a given amount of time. It is probably more about which method is fun to use, and engages you and thus actually gets used.
Yeah, you hear this a lot on Fitness YouTube -- the best workout is the one you actually do. With language, it's all about practice -- the best study method is the one you actually do.
This looks incredible, and its obvious that a lot of work has been done, but in exploring it I notice a lot of things that make me hesitate to spend the money!
First, in the section "Expressions are flashcards on steroids", the flavor text on each element (Translations, Audio, etc) is identical.
Next, I look at the pricing and get one idea. Then when I create an account and go to upgrade, I see completely different pricing options. Its not that I care so much about the options, but it kind of worries me!
At one point I swear I saw the phrase "Say something about comprehensible input" instead of an explanation of CI, and the sentence itself was duplicated but now I don't. Maybe you are making this landing page live? It _is_ a nice landing page, to be sure.
Overall, I think it looks really cool and I'm interested in trying it out but just a little nervous at the moment.
What the heck? Thank you for bringing the flavor text issue to my attention. You have no idea how long I spent making sure the copy on each of those to make sure they were unique, fit all screen sizes, etc. I have no idea what happened and I’m tragically upset now XD
The “say something about comprehensible input” was indeed a funny copy issue I found a few weeks ago. edit: found and fixed! original: I thought I fixed it though, there must be a screen size that needs to be updated. I’ll look for it, but it’s a framer website so I can’t grep. Let me know if you find it again!
Indeed I just launched the new page with the new pricing. I have two major tasks this week, the second of which is to update the pricing flow to match the new prices on the home page.
It’s a one man show and fully bootstrapped, so apologies about the disarray. Everything takes a month or two to migrate when you do all the design, marketing, engineering, support, and bug fixes yourself!
EDIT: Both the flavor text and the “say something about ci” have been fixed. The upgrade flow will take a few days. I am planning to grandfather everyone who signs up for the old plan ($10pm) into the new plan ($20pm) at the old price :)
Heh I can’t promise much, but I can promise I’m working on it full-time 7 days a week and am moving as fast as I can! If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me via the support card on the dashboard (it all goes straight to me)
I’ve incorporated many different things into the SRS, from vector embeddings to graph based association to lemma clustering to morpheme linking, and was surprised how much of these I took out.
Most of the unlocks with the SRS have been more in application space. Doing reviews with Anki feels like a chore, and I’m always counting down the reviews left to do. Reviews with Phrasing however are much more addictive, and I routinely spent an extra 30+ minutes in that “ok just one more card” loop.
We will never be able to know with 100% certainty how well you know a card, but FSRS gets us darn close. I think the interesting stuff is less about improving that metric, and more about what can you do with that information.
Thanks to the whole FSRS team btw (I assume y’all will be reading this hn post) <3
And if anyone is curious I wrote up a bit about my SRS here: https://phrasing.app/blog/humane-srs