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Can you think of a regime that was bombed by foreigners and quickly fell?

I cannot. Ground occupation, yes. But afaict bombing just reinforces the regime.



I don't think we have a historical precedence to what is happening here. The closest would be Israel's attack on Hezbollah which literally collapsed and led to the collapse of the Syrian regime as well.

The Iranian regime is very centralized and with Israel and the USA having air superiority and having penetrated it completely from an intelligence perspective (see Israel's perfect knowledge of the whereabouts of the previous chief of staff and the newly appointed chief of staff) it's going to be very hard for it to survive if a decision is made to remove it. There are a handful of key people that once gone there is not going to be any continuity.

The current regime is allowed to continue because of fear of chaos if it is removed, not because there isn't a capability to remove it.


Syria regime changed was made by troops on the ground.

Again, no bombing campaigns led to a change of regime. This theory is proven again and again


The troops on the ground were only able to act because the regime has been weakened. But yes, someone in Iran would need to somehow actively do something.


Sound like it's very realistic that Israel will target the regime itself soon. I don't think the US will actively support it, though.


people didnt think the US would support this bombing. the "nothing ever happens" bet isnt looking good right now


Israel can't execute regime change by themselves, so US will definitely get involved.


First footage from the area doesn't appear to show any extended damage, so maybe it was all a show.

Regardless, a sovereign country was bombed tonight just because they can. This, IMHO, can have very bad outcomes for the peace worldwide since it means that anybody who can bomb someone can just go ahead and do it. No more international order.

What's next then? Bomb Brussels because EU doesn't buy chicken from USA? This stuff isn't OK.

The regime change in Iran can be a silver lining if it changes with something more cooperative. But yes, I agree that this is unlikely.


to be fair what you see is 6 bombs points of entry, you don't know what happened to the underground compound.

From what I gathered from OSINT types, they have breached the ventilation shafts above the centrifuge halls


> Regardless, a sovereign country was bombed tonight just because they can.

The dictatorial nature of Trump's order to attack a nation is far more concerning. Supposedly the US requires an act of Congress to authorize this sort of operation. Sidestepping congress underlines US's descent into totalitarianism and one of the very first acts crystalizing a dictatorship.


An act of Congress is not required for the first 60 days.


The way the world works these days m 60 Days is enough for the president to unilaterally get us into war with literally every country on the planet.

This president has clearly exposed the unarticulated parts of out laws which is supposed to make them work; The hope that the president will essentially act and interpret them in “good faith”


Congress and the US in general has had plenty of time to adjust the powers of the president as US naval, air, and communications capabilities have increased.

not doing so is approval of the change in the president's power to initiate and wage war unilaterally without congressional involvement


> a sovereign country was bombed tonight

IRGC isn’t a sovereign country, it’s a designated terrorist organization

You forgot that IRGC already directly attacked Israel twice in 2024 [1,2], and that’s not including countless proxy attacks and terrorist acts, culminating in October 7th massacres & atrocities

You got it wrong: IRGC attacked and Israel retaliated

US is just helped a little bit their ally

> This stuff isn't OK.

UN, ICC, ICG, etc. all became a $hit show, they don’t work. For 40 years IRGC threatened with Genocide of Jews, and they did nothing. Now when Jews retaliated: * This stuff isn't OK.* ;)

—-

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2024_Iranian_strikes...

2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_2024_Iranian_strikes_o...


huh? iran definitely has a sovereign government. just because you dont like it doesnt make it not true.


Substance over form

or

De facto vs de jure

Pedantic rule-based systems are easy to circumvent with loopholes and lacunas. That’s why we should look at the substance and not merely a [legal] form

Examples:

- form: a cryptocurrency, but substance: an unregistered security

- “medical alcohol” during dry laws / Prohibition

- “medical marijuana” & patients vs drug users

- etc.

—-

Was Third Reich[1] a “sovereign government” or a front for The National Socialist German Workers' Party?

Was USSR a “sovereign government” or a front for a Communist Party?

Is Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI) a “sovereign government” or merely a front for IRGC[2]?

And wasn’t Iran/Persia already a “sovereign government” before IRGC staged a coup d'état (aka “revolution”)?

—-

> "De facto" and "de jure" are Latin terms used to distinguish between what exists in reality and what is legally recognized. "De facto" refers to something that exists in practice or reality, even if not officially established or legally recognized. "De jure" refers to something that is legally recognized or officially established

——

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany

2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_...


So China isn't a sovereign government because it's a front for CPP and can be bombed at will...?


If any entity threatens u: u have 3 options: fight back, surrender, or self-destruct

In the first case, u have 2 more options: strike pre-emptively, or wait for them to strike & then retaliate

It doesn't matter what the entity is, it only matters whether they are enemy or not

——

> So China is not a sovereign state because it is a front for the CPP and can be bombed at will...?

I don't see the logical connection here. I never wrote that countries controlled by terrorist or authoritarian entities should be bombed at will. I wrote that some countries are highjacked by them, & if they attack or declare their intention to attack u, u may as well do it first


The amount of "oh of course we just have to kill them all" I am seeing online in the past day is horrifying.


Attacked Israel as a response to something?


It didn't literally cause a regime change but the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was essentially the last nail in the coffin for the Milosevic regime.

The key element is where the will of the people points - Milosevic was already unpopular and the bombing further united the people against him.

The few Iranians I know are against the regime, but I don't know how the wider picture looks.


According to my Iranian friends (even the most hardline Ayatollah haters), most Iranians hate the regime, but they'll rally behind them if boots land on the ground.

Many of them still look at the Iran-Iraq war with a shade of Iranian patriotism (not sure there's a word to capture that actual feeling of sad memories of losing family members, coupled with a patriotic sense of duty).

The younger generation, not so much, since they didn't have to live through that hell.


> The few Iranians I know are against the regime, but I don't know how the wider picture looks.

my experience with Iranians I know are the same. the regime is not partitularly liked by the Iranians but they are no doubt united behind him now because (and for good reason) they likely believe whoever the israelis would appoint as the leader of Iran would be categorically worse.


I find it hard to believe foreign intervention can do anything other than rally support.

A lot of Americans deeply oppose Trump, but how many of them would support a Chinese invasion with the express objective of overthrowing him and installing a new regime? I suspect very few, and instead you'd probably get a backlash of support for Trump.


Argentinian Junta fell after they lost the Falkland war in 1982


That was an external war initiated through a grave miscalculation by the junta. Apples and oranges.


> through a grave miscalculation by the junta.

Sounds pretty similar to the current situation to me.


Ground occupation also don't typically leads to a healthy regime change. Yes the regime can be changed quickly, but not always in the way we want.


Japan


Japan was on the verge of being invaded by both the United States and the Soviet Union. The writing was on the wall and the choice to surrender very likely turned out better for Japan, both territorially and in the key priority of persevering the Imperial Dynasty.


Okinawa and all those pacific island, not to mention China and south east Asia.


Yugoslavia.


Can you think of a regime that was bombed by foreigners and quickly fell?

Japan.


Not necessarily but this is also not the end of the campaign. If Israel and US take out their ultimate bargaining chip and have air supremacy then the room to maneuver for the ayatollah is quite small. What happens next inside Iran is anyone’s guess. There have been multiple waves of very large protests in the past five years. What’s stopping mossad from delivering rifles to them from Syria or an airdrop at this point of escalation




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