> The U.S., for instance, has a 2.5 percent tariff on cars imported from Germany, while Germany has a ten percent tariff on American cars. In addition, Germany’s value-added tax is remitted on exports but charged on imports. As a result, while the logos of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen are seen all over American roads, those of Ford and General Motors are a rare sight in Germany.
The fact that America has a bunch of German cars, and Germany doesn't have anywhere near as many American cars, may be influenced somewhat by tariffs, but is in no way explained by or the result of those tariffs. The issue is ultimately just that German cars are, in general, of far higher-quality, compared to American cars.
If you go to Asia, there are far more German cars than American. They buy Asian cars for value and German cars for luxury. American cars are simply not competitive.
> As a result, while the logos of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Volkswagen are seen all over American roads, those of Ford and General Motors are a rare sight in Germany.
Ford manufactures cars in Europe, and was historically quite successful in Europe (though it seems to really be struggling in the past decade or so; other than Transit vans it'd be unusual to see a new Ford today). The cars that it made in Europe were, generally, aimed at the market, and many were never made available in the US at all.
GM also used to manufacture cars in Europe, again, aimed at local preferences. Their European division ended up part of Stellantis, the great conglomerate of car brands that you can't quite believe still exist.
The concentration on _Germany_, which doesn't have an independent trade policy, seems odd.
>In addition, Germany’s value-added tax is remitted on exports but charged on imports
Germany's, and all other countries', VAT is a tax on purchases by consumers in that country. It wouldn't make sense to levy it on exported cars. It works just as I assume it does with American car manufacturers who don't charge Ohio sales tax on cars they make in Ohio and export to the EU, or indeed California, right?
>German cars are, in general, of far higher-quality, compared to American cars.
Automotive EE here. This is so misleading it might as well be labeled as fiction.
The German MODELS that you are familiar with are higher tier vehicles. Notice I did not say the brand was high quality.
The truth is 30 plus years ago, ok, fair statement with that note above. But now… almost all brands are using the same suppliers and the same processes. Your seats come from Johnson Controls or Recaro or a mfg you have never heard of but makes Ferrari seats on the same lines as their Toyota seats. There are three ABS / brake system / traction-stability module makers worldwide plus some trash ones in China. The X module in a Fiat is the same part number as that same module in the La Ferrari. The McClaren 500s and 600s use an Android based screen made by the same people that make the one of Polaris.
Not to be too general here, but it’s all the same shit.
Yes, specs matter. But your programming is coming out of India whether you drive a G Wagon or a Ford.
The disparity in your post, is not only about tarrifs, but also the size of the most popular Ford GM Stellatis vehicles. That the above three lose money on their cars and basically only push them as hard as they do in order to tilt CAFE scales.
No offense meant, it’s just that when people talk about cars, 99% of the time they have no idea what they’re talking about and myths become reality.
I spent a little time writing software for a plastic injection moulding company who supplied parts for a range of different automotive suppliers.
You could say that they were all made the same way — they were all moulded from tiny little plastic balls that are melted down — but the reality is that there was a huge difference in the products produced for each vehicle.
The vent for an A/C is one example. To produce that piece for a Ford might be one piece of plastic, which falls off the conveyor at about 1 every 20 seconds. The same piece for an Audi would take 3 different types of plastic, and some rubbery material, and would take about two minutes per unit - as well as some assembly, by a human, before it is done.
Injection molding and engineering over the last 20 years has basically been homogenized to works and doesn’t work.
I can promise you at Diamler, they’re designing the shape of the vent, and sending it to the supplier just like GM is doing. Same suppliers, and the details are being offloaded for like ten reason but among them is that it doesn’t make sense to have the mold experts in house, and every supplier knows their machines and abilities, the customer doesn’t.
It is misleading to say that "all brands are using the same suppliers" and straight up false to say that they're using "the same processes", especially in the context of German cars (I'm referring to all German cars, not just premium makes from Mercedes or BMW) vs. American cars. There is a universe of difference between VW's manufacturing process and Chrysler's process, which is pretty self-evident if you drive a VW and a Chrysler back-to-back, there really isn't any comparison.
The best part about this, as I don’t need to argue with you at all.
You can have your opinion, unobstructed by my career experience.
Same suppliers, same processes, sometimes the engineering is a little better or worse. I can promise you the Volkswagen has made absolute goddamn bonehead fucking mistake mistakes, where Chrysler has solved that X problem since the 80s. And that a high-end Mercedes AMG has some worse Y than any Hyundai on the road.
The truth is the suppliers built vehicles. There are good and bad decisions by vendors and suppliers everywhere.
But it’s all coming out of the same shops. CARpocalypse 2008 was not about bailing out GM Chrysler. But knowing if either of them went down, the entire automotive industry was going to knock on and tumble over.
You're suggesting the quality of a car is a function of the quality of its constituent parts. That's not the case. Quality is a function of those things, but also and more importantly the processes by which the car is assembled, and really ultimately dominated by the end-user experience of the driver.
Because if it isn’t automotive, just stop. And if it is automotive, have your managers send you to a plant.
It’s like you think someone is turning wrenches to assemble your car :D short version… wrenches are not allowed in major production lines of any brand.
It in the 30 years I’ve been in the industry. I’ve never seen that at any plant, and if I had, I wouldnt be the least bit shocked because things that seem strange to you might make sense on the 1-vehicle per minute scale.
Please help me out… mallet into what? All Chrsyler, DCX, Fiat, and now Stellantis vehicles I’ve worked on have exactly the same windshield attachment method that almost all vehicles have.
It’s all sheet metal or a frame trim that the windshield is glued to. No exceptions that I can think but maybe Tesla or Rivian does something dumb.
From McClaren to Chrysler 200, all vehicles on the road attach their windshields exactly the same way.
How do you think someone would repair it otherwise? Aside from being ignorant about the industry, you don’t even know how you local windshield repair shop works?
I want to know what magic attachment mechanism holds the glass!
Again, you’re allowed to be wrong, you just aren’t allowed to be this dumb without being corrected for the next person that knows nothing to come along and not realize you are making up claims left and right.
I really have no idea what your problem is with me, nor do I understand what you're trying to convey. I certainly don't see how any of this stuff relates to what I said. But, in any case, good sealioning effort, 10 on 10.
Yes, this statement is so old and wrong that it gets boring real quick…
You can just look at the roads of any country that has the same tariffs for U.S. and European cars and you will still not see all that many American cars there.
Ford's European division has generally faded from relevance over the last decade or so, but that's nothing to do with tariffs (virtually all Ford cars sold in Europe have been made in Europe, for decades); that's very much on Ford.
Well seeing as you alluded to having references amongst many I figured you might have the statistics to hand. Additionally why did you focus on new registrations rather than all registered vehicles?
10% will sway some purchases, and exclusively removes American autos from the “Value” category.
As someone who drives a Japanese car, I don't disagree with the premise - but its worth double clicking on whether there is a motivation for American automakers to abandon the value/reliability category.
If German cars are so good, why does Germany need a 10% tariff on American cars?
If what you say is true, Germany should lower tariffs as part of negotiations to get a better deal on exporting to the US. It would be a win-win for them then.
Germany does not have 10% tariffs on American cars. This part is simply not true. Germany has 10% sales tax called VAT on all the cars - German cars included. Teslas were popular in Germany, prior Musk open support for far right. Even Fords are common in Germany, although mostly small ones not huge ones.
Oh ... and America has outright ban on Japanese cars. They are reliable and popular pretty much anywhere else.
tl;dr this is a problem with hillsdale and heretage foundation - they simply lie.
The fact that America has a bunch of German cars, and Germany doesn't have anywhere near as many American cars, may be influenced somewhat by tariffs, but is in no way explained by or the result of those tariffs. The issue is ultimately just that German cars are, in general, of far higher-quality, compared to American cars.