(1) Cybertruck sales projections were ridiculously overestimated. A mid-level exec at Toyota who did something similar would likely have been fired, but since this was apparently the decision of the Great Leader, there were no consequences.
(2) Full self-driving claims were overhyped and the technological decision to remove LIDAR was a big mistake, if we look at Waymo in comparison, and the long record of Tesla's failed claims on this one.
(3) The Great Leader dove into politics and thus alienated a large fraction of the customer base, while also not generating a new customer base. I see some similarities here to the Bud Light marketing debacle, in general.
Conclusion: companies selling products should really focus on creating good designs that meet people's needs above all else, and should implement internal democratic systems that can remove wild-eyed Great Leaders from decision-making positions before they take everything off the rails.
P.S. Why can't we just have a simple 1990s-style Toyata truck with an electric drive train and a robust battery with well-designed and tested firmware that doesn't need OTA updates and smart phone app and telemetry? I don't need an 'infotainment center' if I have a phone or tablet, either.
P.S. Why can't we just have a simple 1990s-style Toyata truck with an electric drive train and a robust battery with well-designed and tested firmware that doesn't need OTA updates and smart phone app and telemetry? I don't need an 'infotainment center' if I have a phone or tablet, either.
I would like to second this. A very very simple vehicle would be welcome. I have some small hope with the Slate truck[1], but will wait and see. For now my 2006 Toyota Rave4 is fine and might be my last car.
Some argue that the bent-stainless unibody design of the original Cybertruck prototype was a design for efficient low volume production. Then 1M pre-orders flooded in and they were forced to design for high volume production. Which is hard, and takes a lot of time.
Those sales projections were based on pre-orders and deposits taken. Normally that's a fairly robust projection method, and perhaps would have been if the Cybertruck would have arrived on market in a timely fashion at the promised price.
The big mistake with the Cybertruck was that promised $40K price tag. Without that the pre-orders likely would have much more closely matched sales.
This anti-Tesla sentiment seems to be purely isolated to online communities, specifically reddit. I have been sitting on my hands waiting for used tesla prices to come down and they never have. The people I know who own teslas still vouch for them and make no mention of Elon. I visited a dealership last friday and it was busy.
I would believe sales are down, consumers are looking for more affordable vehicles while Tesla prices have remained high, however I have never seen anything like what this article mentions in real life.
> This anti-Tesla sentiment seems to be purely isolated to online communities
The dramatic decline in Tesla purchases in European countries proves otherwise. Here in Europe, I've heard Tesla discussed negatively in office canteens and doctors' waiting rooms a lot since Musk's 'arm gestures'. One of the doctors at my local surgery had his Tesla covered in red paint recently.
Both sentiments exist in Europe at the same time. When I moved in where I live one year ago, there was one other Tesla parked in the area. Now there’s 5 more. And yes, Musk is the (negative) talking point in waiting rooms.
You mean he extended his heart out to the crowd twice? Yes, I don't think anyone debates that. Saying he made a nazi salute is the misinformation, Elon isn't a fascist any more than Biden was a communist or Michelle Obama was a man. This sort of low-IQ name-calling is exhausting
What's amusing about your comment is that Musk is on video doing a literal "my heart goes out to you" gesture in an older press event recording where he does not in fact give a nazi salute but instead does a heart shape with both his hands and extends it outward from his chest, showing that he's informed about the accepted version of that gesture.
And you may be misinformed of the context as well. He did the nazi salute because him and Vivek were being raked over the coals for their H1-B stance by the Bannon wing of MAGA and his bruised ego was clearly throwing a bone to the base of that wing to get into their good graces again.
Please don't engage in flamewars like this on HN. It's not the kind of topic that can be resolved with this kind of back-and-forth, and it's against the guidelines to use HN in this way, so please just avoid participating in them in future.
Please don't comment like this on Hacker News. HN is not for political/ideological battle, and whatever you're commenting about, we need you to avoid snark.
There's nothing to be gained by continuing to discuss the topic, as nobody is interested in change their minds about it. All comments in any subthreads about it should be flagged equally for being flamebait and a generic tangent. People who want to keep discussing it have much of the rest of the internet in which to do so.
Honest question: do you really think the richest man in the world would not know that his nazi-like salute ("my heart goes to you") would be (mis)represented as a nazi salute?
> Musk performed two fascist salutes at a political rally. He did it deliberately and he did it twice.
To say this means you consume misinformation on a regular basis. If you watch the whole video he's extending his heart to the crowd. Further the "double our H1B" guy obviously isn't a fascist, he shares no ideals or political interests with fascism.
Claiming all your political opponents are fascist/socialist/demons/etc is a low-IQ argument and not conducive to meaningful discussion.
Wasn't this required since Tesla took a bunch of money from the US Federal government for charging infrastructure? And non-Tesla cars pay more than Teslas to use the same chargers.
As the face of Tesla, Elon instigated an aggressive political campaign in opposition to the people who care about EVs and climate change, so obviously those people are going to react negatively towards the brand.
"Harm" is a very subjective, one-sided view of a government efficiency and anti-corruption project.
Hundreds of millions of American taxpayers are fully behind DOGE.
I'm sure you'll find some supposedly vital science project that lost its funding, but please don't forget the hundreds of millions of people that are forced, by threat of violence, to pay for these things (that's the reality of taxation as a system). Sometimes those people get fed up, and they want government priorities to better match their own.
> "Harm" is a very subjective, one-sided view of a government efficiency and anti-corruption project.
I don't think it's an efficiency or anti-corruption project. If it is, it has failed pretty solidly. In the meantime, it's actively and objectively harming real people.
Regardless of whether or not you agree, the opposition to Musk doesn't appear to be overly tribal in nature. It appears to be a reaction to harm (real or perceived).
> Hundreds of millions of American taxpayers are fully behind DOGE.
Exactly how many people do you think there are in the United States?
How many of those are eligible to vote?
Now, of that group, how many voted for Trump, how many voted for Harris, how many voted for someone else, and how many didn't vote for president at all?
Of those subgroups, the one that comes closest to triple digit millions is "didn't vote at all". And it's still 10M short of the 100M mark.
~244.6M eligible voters in 2024. ~89.3M didn't vote at all. ~77.3M voted for Trump. ~75M voted for Harris.
Your phrasing reminds me of Pam Bondi's recent claim that Trump's policies have saved 258 million American lives. She claimed that they saved 2/3 of Americans from imminent death from fentanyl overdose. The claim is farcical on the face of it. Nowhere near 2/3 of Americans were, or are, at risk of a fentanyl overdose. She could have used the more accurate phrasing of "the amount of fentanyl seized or prevented is sufficient to make N million fatal doses" but that's not what was said. Instead she said "saved 258 million lives", which is a completely ridiculous claim that should be ridiculed for the unrealistic hyperbole that it is.
Your claim isn't quite as bad, but it's a similar mishandling of numbers.
Harm as in death. Millions of people for $0 saved. Not really sure how they sleep at night to be honest.
The Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), established under the Trump administration and led by Elon Musk, has implemented extensive federal budget cuts across various agencies. These reductions have had significant impacts on global health, scientific research, and domestic services.
Global Health Impacts
Children: The withdrawal of USAID support may leave 1 million children without treatment for severe malnutrition, potentially causing 163,500 additional deaths annually. An estimated 4.5 million additional deaths among children under five by 2030, primarily due to the loss of access to nutrition, vaccines, and basic healthcare services.
Maternal and Child Health: A modeling study predicts that the cessation of U.S. maternal and child health funding could lead to an additional 7.9 million child deaths and 510,000 maternal deaths by 2040.
Malaria: Internal USAID memos estimate that up to 166,000 additional deaths from malaria could occur due to halted prevention programs.
Polio: Approximately 200,000 more children are projected to be paralyzed by polio over the next decade as a result of disrupted vaccination efforts.
HIV/AIDS: The dismantling of programs like PEPFAR could lead to a 400% increase in AIDS-related deaths globally, equating to an estimated 6.3 million additional deaths within four years, and up to 16 million additional deaths and 26 million new HIV infections by 2040.
Malnutrition: One million children are expected to go untreated for severe acute malnutrition, increasing the risk of mortality.
Tuberculosis: New cases of tuberculosis are anticipated to rise by 30% due to the cessation of treatment and prevention programs. Approximately 62,000 additional TB-related deaths are anticipated if foreign aid is not restored by the end of 2025.
Domestic Impacts
National Institutes of Health (NIH): Facing a 35% budget cut, the NIH has had to scale back or halt numerous research projects, affecting advancements in areas like cancer and infectious diseases.
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS): A reorganization plan includes the elimination of 20,000 jobs, impacting agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Social Security Administration (SSA): The closure of the Office of Civil Rights and Equal Opportunity and the layoff of 7,000 employees have led to delays and challenges in service delivery.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA): DOGE operatives' unauthorized access to NOAA systems has raised concerns about the potential risks to weather forecasting and public safety.
National Science Foundation (NSF): Termination of $1 billion in grants and significant staff reductions have disrupted scientific research and education initiatives.
Financial Considerations
While DOGE claims to have saved $160 billion through these cuts, analyses suggest that the associated costs, including rehiring efforts and decreased productivity, have completely offset these savings, resulting in no savings at all.
People that bring up the word "communism" in relation to modern American Democrats greatly insult the memory of all those people killed by actual Communist regimes in the 20th century.
You were the first to abuse language with "taxation is theft" and then followed it up with a Communism metaphor. Please take your own advice.
Musk's entire gesture matches a Nazi salute close enough that if you were making an animated documentary about WWII and needed some footage to rotoscope when animating Hitler and used the musk footage without credit no one would suspect you hand't used authentic Hitler footage.
Here's a post that shows side by side videos of Musk's gesture and several authentic Nazi salutes [1].
Nearly all of the "but Democrats did it too" or "but celebrities did it too" claims are stills showing an outstretched arm. When you find the video of the movements surrounding the arm being in that position that are nothing like Nazi salutes.
I am not surprised by this reply, but at least I have clarified your lack of good faith to other viewers.
Elon clearly and assuredly did a Nazi salute. A man who has promoted Nazi rhetoric and who had his AI push Holocaust denial this week, whose time in government has been haphazardly destroying careers, dismantling oversight bodies, and having the president advertise his products.
The stills you provide clearly did not. And are people who have spent their lives fighting for civil rights, universal healthcare, and police reform.
This “political opponent” is actively destroying much of what I love about my country. Feeding our hard-earned institutions straight into the wood chipper. Establishing his oligarch buddies as the new nobility. Illegally subverting democracy with the help of his rancid think tanks. People will be dying from lack of medical care, drinking tainted water and soiled food, getting sent to concentration camps with no recourse, wallowing in abject poverty with no safety net, and all the while these ghouls will be smirking and clinking their glasses, still somehow thinking that they’re the good guys.
The word “opponent” doesn’t even begin to describe it. Musk and his ilk must never be seen in public again without being swarmed by protestors. Let them wallow in their pathetic cult bunkers with their concubines for the rest of their natural lives.
And frankly, I’d rather have BYD or Xiaomi anyway.
I'm not a fan of elon or the cheato, but there are corps in the US that deserve people's ire much more than tesla. You could just start with a list of the "incinerating the poor" industry. Or any of the other murder for hire corporations.
I would never own a tesla myself, simply because of the level of surveillance. But they do have the most well developed charging network, and the integration of that network with the vehicle's nav system is the most stand out feature of the brand. No other EV maker comes close in this regard.
I agree with the sentiment that elon is scum, but I would also say that if you want to protest against a company, there are many that do much more damage to society than tesla...
Anything that gives Musk a dollar of additional funding to fuel his megalomaniacal ambitions must be neutered, and much of Musk’s power comes from his Tesla holdings.
If the Tesla board does not want their company to be doomed, they need to evict Musk. If they don’t, they reveal their full complicity with his madness.
“I'm not a fan of elon or the cheato, but there are corps in the US that deserve people's ire much more than tesla. You could just start with a list of the "incinerating the poor" industry. Or any of the other murder for hire corporations.”
I don't think tesla "funding" will have any material effect on his political activity.
Tesla could completely go away, and he would still be the world's richest man.
This is just a sad case of tilting at windmills...
Protesting General Dynamics, or any of the other companies making bombs or landmines that are still dismembering children around the (third) world would be much more appropriate. I wonder why no one is protesting Space X instead?
Protesting an electric car company is just counter productive, regardless of who owns it...
I wouldn't argue with that, but I would say this is a subset of "consumers have no agency in relation to neither US federal politics nor the behavior of the oligarchy".
Well the long range cybertruck is 62k after tax rebate, which is almost palatable and arguably better than the cheapest F150 EV's, although the looks still might cause strife where strife is not needed.
I'm not sure they Cybertruck has suffered more quality issues than any other new car and platform. The big issue for me is if I got one, it would instantly be the most noticeable vehicle in the parking lot, and possibly the most expensive. I could afford the long range version, and in many ways it is a great deal, but I can't have a more noticeable car than the CEO or CTO lol. I assume you would have the same issue if you're buying cybertrucks as fleet vehicles, where people start accusing the ceo of wasting money, even if they're technically cheaper than a comparable EV pickup
> but I can't have a more noticeable car than the CEO or CTO lol
What kind of crazy company do you work for where this is something to worry about, at all?
Also no, I don't believe most new car platforms have problems with large metal bits coming off as you drive, at frequency high enough to cause a recall.
(1) Cybertruck sales projections were ridiculously overestimated. A mid-level exec at Toyota who did something similar would likely have been fired, but since this was apparently the decision of the Great Leader, there were no consequences.
(2) Full self-driving claims were overhyped and the technological decision to remove LIDAR was a big mistake, if we look at Waymo in comparison, and the long record of Tesla's failed claims on this one.
(3) The Great Leader dove into politics and thus alienated a large fraction of the customer base, while also not generating a new customer base. I see some similarities here to the Bud Light marketing debacle, in general.
Conclusion: companies selling products should really focus on creating good designs that meet people's needs above all else, and should implement internal democratic systems that can remove wild-eyed Great Leaders from decision-making positions before they take everything off the rails.
P.S. Why can't we just have a simple 1990s-style Toyata truck with an electric drive train and a robust battery with well-designed and tested firmware that doesn't need OTA updates and smart phone app and telemetry? I don't need an 'infotainment center' if I have a phone or tablet, either.