I can't believe what a bunch of bollocks this administration is. I couldn't believe it the first time, and this time I thought "Well at least I'm ready, it will be a lot like last time" and it's so much worse
It was all opinion. Trump said a lot of stuff before this election, but he said a lot of stuff before his first one too.
When people disagreed on what he might do, it was all guesses. There was no evidence to base anything on. Would his second term be restrained by people around him like in his first? That would be an evidence-based extrapolation. Would tariffs be all talk and little action, like in his first term? Extrapolating from evidence, they would be. But 2025 isn't 2017. Things would be different, but how? It's all guesses.
It's insanely naive to have thought a second Trump admin would not be worse in every possible way. Did you pay attention at all to what was going on with SCOTUS? Project 2025?
Saying "there wasn't any evidence" is borderline bot-speak. Anybody who thought Trump 2.0 was going to be like the first round was simply not paying attention at all and anybody telling others it wasn't going to be like the first admin is either a Russian troll, the mainstream media, or just plain irresponsibly ignorant.
"Nobody could have foreseen this" is about the dumbest take I think I've seen so far.
I didn't claim any of those things were specific to Project 2025.
We've known about RFK Jr all along so yes, if somebody is surprised by the secretary of health being anti-vax, that somebody is irresponsibly ignorant. If that somebody also claims that nobody could have foreseen this, or that prior to him being picked they were fond of reassuring people that "there's no way it'll be that bad"... yeah I'd 100% associate that with the type of behavior becoming of a Russian troll.
I find it really weird and cringey that you're bringing up ego. I don't feel like I'm smarter than everybody else, nor am I claiming to be, nor do I see how any of my comments could even be construed as such. To say this is about me thinking I'm smarter than everybody else is to imply that I'm relishing in the fact that I "foresaw what others couldn't", which is just... an insanely idiotic thing to say. I'm not a sociopath. And for what it's worth, I know plenty of people who also saw this coming.
To be clear, it's a tragedy that so many people were ignorant of what a second Trump admin would be capable of, but that's not really the point I'm trying to make; I am specifically taking issue with your insistence that it was somehow impossible for anybody else to foresee this.
> I find it really weird and cringey that you're bringing up ego. I don't feel like I'm smarter than everybody else, nor am I claiming to be, nor do I see how any of my comments could even be construed as such.
Then you should re-read your comment. Calling people "insanely naive"? "Bot-speak"? The "dumbest take"? "Irresponsibly ignorant"?
And you really think you're not trying to portray yourself as smarter than everyone else who didn't see this coming?
Your comments are insulting, provocative, in bad faith, and do not belong on HN.
I was trying to make a reasoned point that no, most reasonable smart people didn't expect the Trump administration to be anything like what it is now. I don't know of anyone who predicted this. Your claims to the contrary are simply rewriting history. You're calling people ignorant, when you seem to be the one with the faulty memory.
I hope you can learn a little humility. Good luck to you.
Sorry, but this is a very misguided take. He tried to do all the same things his first term, but enough people around him kept him in check. Now, he explicitly got "yes" folks around him and purged the career folks who'd uphold the Constitution. He's emboldened like a child who just learned they can command the world to do their bidding without restraint.
A lot was lost in the midterms and Supreme Court appointments.
Hopefully these 4 years energize people to vote. I know protesting and direct action and so on are also important, but the gradient is not negative for voting for every office you can vote for in every election.
I'm scared that elections won't be secure, especially with the way the Republicans are trying to (arguably unconstitutionally) wield federal power to force individual states to change their systems in abrupt ways.
I fear the situation either ends badly or in a bloodshed. They aren't respecting the courts, so assuming they will accept defeat in elections is naive.
People can learn once the world puts most of its money into education.
The unfortunate part is that education is often also part of propaganda and spinning history for said propaganda. These days I wish education had a bigger emphasis on history and history should be looked at from different angles, like how the same thing is being taught from different angles.
>These days I wish education had a bigger emphasis on history and history should be looked at from different angles, like how the same thing is being taught from different angles.
It does. In higher education.
You cannot force someone to learn something. The mean-spirited bully not paying attention in high school history class and barely getting a C- to graduate didn't exactly learn anything about nuanced topics like "The Nazis didn't start the holocaust right away" and "Fascism is inherently incompetent, and that makes it so much worse"
If parents raise their kids to not consider education important (and millions of parents in the US have always done just so, we have an insane level of anti-intellectualism in this country), you won't get educated kids.
Every time someone says "I wish school taught <X>", plenty of schools EXPLICITLY DO THAT, and it doesn't work, because the person complaining was one of the kids crying "When will I ever use this" instead of paying attention.
The same adults who complain that school didn't teach them "critical thinking" are upset that school didn't walk them through the process step by step, as if you can't balance a check book with fucking basic algebra you learn by 4th grade. Meanwhile, 90% of the uproar about "new math" ends up being parents who can't even manage to understand basic word problems, you know, things which take critical thinking to work through?
I've had people complain that school should teach them how to calculate a mortgage, which is funny, because those people sat next to me in Precalculus as we literally did mortgage calculation problems.
The USA is struggling with multiple generations of people who have insisted that education is not only useless, but a liberal agenda, or even a devil-run plot to distract you from god. It's insane.
> Hopefully these 4 years energize people to vote.
This euphemism has to end. I think you mean: "Hopefully these 4 years energize people to vote Democrat".
Why not just say it plainly instead of using supposedly non-partisan language? This neutral phrasing seems to be an appeal to a "silent majority" that agrees with you and disagrees with Republican leadership. What if that silent majority doesn't exist?
You're right in that it's possible that the silent majority doesn't exist.
But personally, the reason I believe it does exist is two-fold:
1. The "My vote won't change anything" rhetoric only ever gets expressed by left-leaning people.
2. Only left-leaning people require endless purity tests for their political candidates and will refuse to vote for anybody that they don't think is the perfect candidate. These are the ones that talk about being fed up for having to choose between the lesser of two evils, then look like a Surprised Pikachu when Trump wins.
> This neutral phrasing seems to be an appeal to a "silent majority" that agrees with you and disagrees with Republican leadership. What if that silent majority doesn't exist?
Then we are on course to lose our spot on top of the world, and I should probably plan to get laid off. Idk, I get what you mean, but not agreeing with Democrats (I don't really agree with them much) and wanting a stable country with a good economy are way different things. I can hold my nose and vote for someone who doesn't actively try to tank the economy, the same way many conservatives (especially religious ones), held their nose and voted for Trump
You are assuming there will be next elections that are free, fair, and matter.
Trump says a lot of things that ultimately doesn't matter, but he has also said, and is the type of brute to believe it, that he intends to stay in power. He and his cronies have successfully dismantled the checks and balances that should have prevented him from doing they, legally. IMO the only way he leaves the White House without stirring trouble is in a casket.
I would rather that he stays alive for the rest of his term. I am more scared of the damage that could be done by Vance. Trump is inept and easy to manipulate, but is fairly predictable in his actions. Vance and his technocrat bros could cause a lot more damage on the other hand. I'll take the devil we "know".
Given the current government has blown off an unanimous 9-0 supreme court decision, right now I can't feel too optimistic there will even be more elections.
I think there will be more elections, but I think they will be fraudulent, because I think Trump has shown he is adept at turning things around and then trying to pretend that what he's doing is analogous to what the other side has done.
For example, a lot of people have forgotten, but the phrase "fake news" originally came about in the wake of the 2016 election about all the (actually false) misinformation that was spread on social media in the run up to the election. Trump adeptly then co-opted the term, so any news he didn't like he could just call it "fake news", and who was to say any news he called fake was any less fake than what people were calling fake before?
My guess is the 2028 elections will be marked by fraud, and then when people protest or object, Trump and the Republicans will just say "Hey, you called all those Jan 6 protesters traitors and said the election was secure, how is now any different? Now you're all the traitors."
The only belief that gives me hope these days is "History will judge the complicit."
> Trump tells them they are OK. They are worthwhile.
The chasm between what Trump says (and what the propaganda says about him) and what he actually does is astounding. Most of his fans are completely uninformed of what he says and does. We've never had a president (and cabinet) with more conflicts of interest. He's been a pioneer at abusing power; tariffs on Canada because of a fentanyl crisis... give me a break!
We never ever told people they are losers for wanting a better life. One of the most popular candidates for the Dem ticket was Bernie Sanders. He actually wanted to cut our biggest budget line items and spend them on the things people worry about the most (healthcare, something most Americans worry about being able to afford).
Trump is a literal billionaire. How is him telling the sons of people who used to do manufacturing that they're okay any better than a Harvard educated lawyer saying he feels for them (Trump and Vance are both Ivy League educated, btw)?
I also want Americans to have a better life. I also think we spend way too much elsewhere instead of at home. A lot of Democrats think that and drive policies for that. Trump may care about that too, but you can't vote for who makes you feel good. You have to learn how to vote for who will actually improve your life. We are the rulers of America, we have to understand our economy, our government, etc. No one is going to do it for us. I'd much rather vote for someone who talks down to me and will deliver stability than a guy who hypes me up and tanks the economy
> The Democrats say "we feel your pain" Fuck them, truly. Voters do not want some Harvard educated lawyer to "feel their pain".
Yeah, apparently they want some billionaire who doesn't pay his taxes, who was given millions by his daddy, and who famously stiffed small business contractors at his buildings, to say he feels their pain.
That said, I actually upvoted your comment because right now it's heavily downvoted but I actually think there is an important point behind your comment. It may feel insane to me, but Trump is so beloved by his base because he was the first one to really acknowledge their anger and give it validity. "Make America Great Again" is a slogan that works because a lot of people have seen their financial and social position deteriorate over the past 30-40 years and they want to go back and they want someone to blame (even if going back is impossible and they're blaming the wrong people). Trump understood this, the Democrats didn't, or worse, branded anyone who harbored some of this anger as a bigot. This is basically how all fascist leaders come to power - the parallels with Mussolini are uncanny, right down to having a minor body part shot off in an assassination attempt.
Relevant recent example to me: a lot of folks can't understand the hypocrisy about bitching about inflation under Biden, but then saying "we'll hunker down" in response to the expected inflation from tariffs. The difference is the Trump base believes he is taking them "back to the promised land", and for better or worse Trump is definitely a man of action, so they're more willing to put up with temporary hardships if they think the direction is right. With Biden and the Dems, they just believe they'll get more of the "slow slide."
> Trump is so beloved by his base because he was the first one to really acknowledge their anger and give it validity. "Make America Great Again" is a slogan that works because a lot of people have seen their financial and social position deteriorate over the past 30-40 years and they want to go back and they want someone to blame (even if going back is impossible and they're blaming the wrong people).
I agree. And they're not wrong to want to go back or blame someone. We can "go back" in terms of increasing the QoL of our populace. Idk, the Democrats were always clear about wanting to uplift people. Obamacare and Medicare for All were extremely clear policy positions meant to uplift the common man. Eliminating student debt (a policy I don't agree with) was also obviously positioned to help people improve their economic and social standing.
I don't know why people say Democrats missed this and Trump saw it? The Democrats won on slogans that capitalized exactly this sentiment. Obama's "Hope" and "Yes we can" are obviously in a context where people didn't have hope or questioned whether we could.
I think he just got lucky against bad candidates, and we ascribe way too much to his branding and the other garbage. Clinton's branding was about HER (i.e. I'm with her), not about THE PEOPLE (biggest political branding mistake in the 21st century imo). And Harris never had the popularity to go to to toe with Trump.
Idk, I think people are mad, but I think the Democrats have spoken to that more authentically and proven themselves to actually do things that help the common man than Trump ever has
The Democrats were always constrained by what's reasonable, whereas Trump has been able to promise the sky, even though delivering it means the sky is now falling.
This sucks, plain and simple.