I'm from Pakistan, and the solution to 'it's difficult for people to get ID' was so simple even 3rd world poor illiterate country could do it: just go to them instead.
Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards.
There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID.
NONE.
If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it.
Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.
That’s a government that’s interested and motivated in getting people an ID.
Now imagine the opposite. A government that’s not interested but rather is motivated in denying some people an ID. Why it increases that’s party likelihood of staying in power.
The US doesn't have a national id card, and the people who want to force ID for voting are the strongest block against having one, for religious reasons. What you suggest is impossible in the US.
I think democrats started out with good intentions, helping enfranchise black voters a part of the civil rights act .... but somehow they have made it their morality point and refuse to accept that it is no longer fit for purpose.
They should made no voter-ID a temporary measure and created proper voter-IS systems in the meanwhile.
lets see where this whole thing heads to. May be in the end we will see the birth of a true democracy, which is social and where the strong ones will take care of weak ones. At least it should be .. in a dream :)
The problem is that we don't have those same systems for getting an ID.
There's no "government comes to you" to give you an ID. And, many Democrats would love to make it easier to get an ID, but the Republicans often deliberately make it harder to get an ID.
They shut down offices and reduce hours of locations, so people have to travel farther and take more time off work. They increase the bureaucratic requirements and hurdles, so people are more likely to need to take multiple trips.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with making a voter ID a requirement to vote, if we could also agree to make it as easy as you describe to get an ID. The problem is the GOP wants to require getting a voter ID and simultaneously make it harder to get an ID.
>I am not an american, I don't have time for these petty excuses.
It's not that you don't have time for the excuses. It's that you are chiming in on a system you know nothing about and simply swallowing the propoganda that you read online.
If your mayor is actively undermining your ability to get an ID in order to surpress your vote, what does "holding him responsible mean"? And if your mayor is doing this at the behest of a billion dollar superpac that has run the number and realized that if they could get 1% reduction in opposition votes by implementing voter ID laws, what is lower class person to do?
It's incredibly easy to get an ID in democratic states, and the voter ID laws aren't about targeting states like California. They almost always target battleground states like Wisconsin where there are billions of dollars spent in TV ads. If you could guarantee that your opponent could like 2-3% of the vote by spending 1 billion dollars on Voter ID bullshit vs spending 10 billion on TV ads, what would you choose?
Electoral warfare is far more salient in US politics than in Pakistan - or any other country. The Heritage Foundation (one of the largest republican think tanks) already confirms that voter fraud is a non-issue - but billion dollar PACs have managed to convince a pakistani on the other side of the world that Voter ID is a real issue. You should ask yourself why you - a pakistani - has such strong feelings about Voter ID when Voter Fraud is completely a non-issue when both political sides look at the data.
Is it that Voter ID is a real issue, or has the billions being spent on making us think it's an issue bled into the media you consume as well?
> . You should ask yourself why you - a pakistani - has such strong feelings about Voter ID when Voter Fraud is completely a non-issue when both political sides look at the data.
Because as I said somewhere else in this post, when americans are unhappy, they spread their frustration on the entire world with a shovel.
And when I see that this frustration arises from something as stupid as voter ID, I wonder why they don't just fix it. I am not interested in the actual voter fraud numbers or some random foundation... I am interested in YOU guys being happy. And if (a sufficient number of) YOU believe in voter fraud, then for ffs, get voter ID, we all have it, why can't you?
It's like with the kids' blankie to save them from the monster under the bed, don't argue about the probability of bed monsters, understand the frankly low cost of providing the blankie, realise it's not worth quibbling about and just GIVE IT TO THEM.
It isn't about about voter fraud, it's about trust in the system. When americans don't feel trust in the system, they are unhappy. And when they are unhappy, they are often distracted by their elected leaders by other things.... things that affect the entire world, like tariffs or wars.
I don't speak about Brazilian issues, not because they don't affect us (we import soybeans from them which affects chicken prices, for example) but the effect is less... catastrophic.... but a Texan sneezes, I get the flu here.
It's part of the curse of being the world hegemon.
Unfortunately, it seems people can't or won't wrestle with the underlying issue. The underlying issue is complex, and it's easier to believe Americans are just too dumb to do voter ID.
I'm not explaining this just for you - but anyone else reading this post. Here is a video from Paul Weyrich, a highly influential republican, in the 1980s discussing why voter turn out should be reduced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4wxlCGIu0
The symptoms are "trust in the system", "voter id" and "voter fraud". The PROBLEM is one major political party has found it extremely advantageous to ensure as few people vote as possible. If every American got voter ID tomorrow, republicans would simply invent a new issue to manufacture distrust in the system in order to suppress votes. Then another pakistani/european/canadian will be flabbergasted as to why American just don't do X and how all their friends do X everyday.
That's why I'm saying the problem is complex. You are viewing the problem as "Americans just won't adopt voter ID", and on it's face you are probably confused as to why a country as rich as America can't do Voter ID. What I'm saying the problem is that it is actually financially and politically advantageous for one party so sow distrust in the voting process (and this isn't some leftist conspiracy, this is openly admitted by them). Once you understand that you will see why Voter ID is so salient. It's not that we can't do Voter ID, its that Voter ID is the current boogeyman to sow distrust and if that is ever solved, we will simply invent a new problem in order to suppress voters.
I am not ignoring it, That disenfranchisement is deliberate, and NOT as a consequence of voter-ID.
Our government and population WANT to disenfranchise them, we WANT to be bigoted against them, and if photo-ID didn't exist, voter rolls STILL exist and then we would use THOSE to lynch them or whatever.
This is hilarious. When it's YOUR government trying to disenfranchise voters, it's deliberate and you can understand that.
When it's America, then it's somehow different. I even laid it out for you clearly that republicans WANT to disenfranchise them, but your prescription is that we need a 25 year plan to offer photo IDs on the cheap.
>and if photo-ID didn't exist, voter rolls STILL exist and then we would use THOSE to lynch them or whatever.
The irony in telling Americans to build a 25 year plan to roll out photo ID when they don't even solve issues for your government. Do you not see how foolish it is to tell Americans to spend time solving a problem that YOU KNOW won't solve the issue of government targeted disenfranchisement? You wrote 500 odd words telling Americans to build a system you just admitted doesn't work to solve the underlying problem.
> If every American got voter ID tomorrow, republicans would simply invent a new issue to manufacture distrust in the system in order to suppress votes.
And?
I am sorry, you fear.... governing? Because that's what life is. You fix one issue, some other arises.
The issue is NOT complex, let's admit it... you just don't want to lose 'face'. You have hitched yourself to the no-ID bandwagon for so long it kills you to admit it was wrong.
Democrats are trying to pretend something is a civil rights issue which NO left-leaning politician the rest of the world considers it to be so. TRUST in the system is paramount, this why Trump is in the office, it seems american citizens trust him more than they trust democrats.
It's a governance/bureaucratic issue. But as the guest on Jon Stewart's podcast said[1], democrats just can't govern.
Any other person would think of it a 25-year plan and start NOW. Start small, start with the most democratic cities in democratic states, and start offering photo ID on the cheap, on the doorstep. Use all those taxes you collect for it. Then move on to other cities in the democratic state, then slowly move outward.
Maybe one day you will again hold the federal government and then you can use the learning from that to help implement it elsewhere... and even if red states don't implement, at least you will have started something good, and you will have something to PRESENT.
But don't mind me, I am just going to spend sometime just trying to understand how trump's tariffs affect us (29%!!!), I feel I will be facing some severe shortages soon.
>You have hitched yourself to the no-ID bandwagon for so long it kills you to admit it was wrong.
Please explain to me clearly where I was wrong? What is the problem you have identified and the solution that I gave that was incorrect?
This rest of the text you posted is a massive non-sequitor. I identified to you that (1) there is no voter fraud problem (2) voter ID would not fix anything except cost the government more money and (3) it's a false claim made to disenfranchise voters.
Please clearly, explain whats wrong, backed with relevant data about voter fraud instead of waffling about Ezra Klein and John Stewart on a completely different issue.
>I am sorry, you fear.... governing?
I fear spending money trying to solve a made up problem. Something you pretended to care about when you brought up Ezra Klein. Except in the case of Voter ID you oppose Ezra Klein and you actually want to spend money doing bullshit that solves nothing. Please identify what is actually solved that is worth someone spending 25 years of their life handing out voter IDs.
The problem isn't NY or California, it's in swing states with a thin Republican majority that gerrymanders (and other dirty tricks) its hold on the state.
I have been a John Oliver viewer from the first season, and my comment will be the same as what I said 9 years ago: This is bullship.
Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system.
It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care.
Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!).
Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable.
Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them.
Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing.
And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it.
The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later.
But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship.
Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
So democrats should spend all this money, time and resources solving a problem they don’t have. And for what purpose? Nah I will rather my Democrat state focus on human welfare and giving people opportunities to progress in life
The UK Labour government was opposed to Photo ID it was the right wing that introduced it.
It is an Anglo-American thing not to have PhotoID probably related to never been invaded in the last two hundred years.
The issue is that to get back in power the Democrats need votes top overturn Republicans and so the IDs in Republican states matter those in Democrat states do not. So better top show full disapproval as they won't lose any seats over that and can keep some pressure up.
Some people in the UK had the same 'oh no we are being outnumbers' sort of mentality, and without mandatory ID, they had no sane voice in their head to tell them 'don't be silly, we track people with cards'.
It's funny how much the existence of the card gives the masses a weird sense of peace.
And? That's bigotry, a totally different issue from accessibility.
The population WANTS this piece of bigotry, heck our ancestors voted for the damn thing it, it's literally the 2nd amendment of our the constitution.
You can't blame NADRA for including it in their forms, they do it on government demand. Heck, I had to sign the damn thing to get my damn passport, there is no escaping it.
But NADRA also has vans that go village by village providing photo-ID on the doorstep. And THAT is accessibility.
Do I wish this piece of bigotry wasn't in on our forms? Yes. Today Ahmedis; tomorrow Shias; day after who knows, it might be me.
Does it mean CNIC are BAD? NO, they are perhaps the only actually part of cour damn governance, being able to provide ID.
We could obviously do better, but NOT having ID is crazy.
I think the problem there is that in Pakistan where they do this they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen - they probably don't need to see your birth certificate to get you an ID, right? In US they want to see proof that you are a citizen and you are who you say you are, which is what (some) people have an issue with, even if you sent buses with all equipment on them to random american towns people just might not have the right documentation on them to pass the checks.
But yes, I agree, it is a pathetic problem for a 1st world country to have - just sort it out.
> they can reasonably assume that everyone in that remote village is a Pakistani citizen
absolutely not! we have had massive migrations both from India (after independence) and Afghanistan (after the russian occupation). This is NOT a given.
Things have NOT been easy... and in fact dare I say, our ID department is rather dumb and stupid. I personally have had MULTIPLE issues with them.
But we have been doing SOMETHING, and the fact that the US doesn't... is insane.
When a child is born, the parent has to get them registered at the local council office. And then when my first card was made at 18, my dad went with me as verification, he attested that I was child #X as per the family tree, they confirmed someone with my name was in that family tree in their records, and used that as verification for me.
If parents are not available they can use relatives, as long as there is a family tree link. Not sure how they do it otherwise, but there is some system for refugees etc too.
Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards.
There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID.
NONE.
If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it.
Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.