As I stated already, I don't think "defending Europe is in America's core interest", especially not today — but it definitely was for the bigger part of the post-WW2 period.
Some things will not necessarily show up in the trade numbers: as a random example, a US company like Amazon opening up Amazon EU headquarters in Ireland will not show up as surplus for US economy as long as they reinvest that locally, but most Europeans will see it as a US company and the business contributing to its success — "simple" goes out the window very quickly with global monopolistic companies.
It's funny you focus so much on the "Cold War", when it was mostly a Cold War between... US and USSR. Again, you are making claims as if you know exactly how things would have played out if US did not decide to invest in influencing European politics and economies. Perhaps we would have seen a larger shift to socialism and communism instead (eg. in Spain, socialists have already been on the winning side of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Spanish_general_election).
Even that might not mean strong alignment with USSR, just like Yugoslavia never did even as a socialist, communist country.
I hear you on how Americans perceive the situation differently, but you are similarly not willing to hear out the European viewpoints.
Anyway, I think this has gone long enough — thank you for sharing your perspective, and even if I failed to nudge you towards better understanding the "other side" too, it's always great to hear different viewpoints.
>It's funny you focus so much on the "Cold War", when it was mostly a Cold War between... US and USSR.
The common US view is that if that Cold War was not "fought", the USSR would've taken over most or all of Europe. Non-alignment only works if there are 2 rival superpowers to play off of each other. But if you're fine with USSR hegemony in Europe, or you think that's not the outcome that would've happened -- that's a great argument for the US pulling out now. If the US doesn't reliably make things better (which is my view), it's better for us to leave.
>I hear you on how Americans perceive the situation differently, but you are similarly not willing to hear out the European viewpoints.
I think I am willing to hear Europeans out. I previously said stuff in this thread like "I'm happy for you to constructively critique..." and "If you wish to persuade me... you're welcome to respectfully make your case..." and "Of course Europe's contribution to Iraq and Afghanistan should be acknowledged." [Note that Europeans in this thread have largely not acknowledged any sort of positive contribution the US made to Europe -- which reinforces my point that we should go. What frustrates me is Europeans who complain about the US endlessly, and also want us to stay!]
>Anyway, I think this has gone long enough — thank you for sharing your perspective, and even if I failed to nudge you towards better understanding the "other side" too, it's always great to hear different viewpoints.
Appreciate you sharing your perspective as well. To be fair, I think we mostly agree with one another anyways, and my disagreements are deeper with others in this thread.
Some things will not necessarily show up in the trade numbers: as a random example, a US company like Amazon opening up Amazon EU headquarters in Ireland will not show up as surplus for US economy as long as they reinvest that locally, but most Europeans will see it as a US company and the business contributing to its success — "simple" goes out the window very quickly with global monopolistic companies.
It's funny you focus so much on the "Cold War", when it was mostly a Cold War between... US and USSR. Again, you are making claims as if you know exactly how things would have played out if US did not decide to invest in influencing European politics and economies. Perhaps we would have seen a larger shift to socialism and communism instead (eg. in Spain, socialists have already been on the winning side of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Spanish_general_election).
Even that might not mean strong alignment with USSR, just like Yugoslavia never did even as a socialist, communist country.
I hear you on how Americans perceive the situation differently, but you are similarly not willing to hear out the European viewpoints.
Anyway, I think this has gone long enough — thank you for sharing your perspective, and even if I failed to nudge you towards better understanding the "other side" too, it's always great to hear different viewpoints.