And your first mistake is assuming I'm okay with a Democrat administration overlooking potential criminal actions.
That's a lot of the times the difference. Many left leaning people will say "and they should be prosecuted too" which is almost ... shocking ... to some on the other side (and not in part because they really see it as 'sides').
> Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation
Horseshit. You act as though it's some wild cockeyed theory. There are audit trails for classified documents. The President's office was the last who had them. He and his staffers were shown on national fucking TV carrying boxes that looked identical onto a plane and into his private residence. And then he lied about it, and attempted to conceal evidence and obstruct justice.
Your spin is disingenous at best. "Bullying". And if you think the public mostly thought Trump was being unfairly "bullied" and intimated over those documents, then that says something about your perspective.
Also for complete clarity, since Biden had a very similar thing happen with the improper storing of documents: He shouldn't be doing that either. Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. But I don't think it should have been ignored because "well, -he- has a '(D)' after his name".
> Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it.
That is tantamount to saying the issue isn't the mis-storing of classified documents, but that Biden didn't feel like threatened by an investigation from the Biden administration. Colour me shocked. That and the lawfare the Democrats were engaging in through the last election cycle was blatant process abuse and it was a relief that the attacks failed in such spectacular fashion.
This is a vocal mob of activists looking for ways to get Trump. If they want to do that by proposing general-purpose anti-corruption improvements and limitations on government then sure, that might be a productive path forward. But in practice it is going to be a bunch of measures that only target Trump because these people aren't worried about the abuse of power, in fact they were cool with it when it targeted their enemies. It has been an ongoing issue for at least the 20 years; since the Patriot act came into action. Probably longer. It hasn't suddenly sprung up because Trump won a second election with a bigger margin than last time. We know for a fact that the people who are serious about it have been unable to get much purchase in the political world.
> The only political figure convicted while Biden was in office was… Biden.
He was then pardoned. By his father. Is that really the example you want to use to show Joe Biden upholding the rule of law fairly?
I don't even think it is particularly bad, there is a standing convention that presidents can do illegal things and get away with it as long as it isn't too sensitive, apparently that extends to close family. So be it. But if that is the standard, that standard applies to Trump too. I mean, if Biden thinks that taxes are optional and he is responsible improperly storing documents himself then he has no business organising FBI raids of his political opponents for doing something a bit off. Or the follow up special prosecution, adding actual abuse of power by the Biden admin to what could maybe be brushed off as miscommunication or terrible optics up to then. He clearly understands that this is normal behaviour for someone in high office.
It is this weird dynamic where the left wing clearly understands that these behaviours are bad, but only choose to recognise them as such when Trump can be targeted. Is it so terrible to accept that it is also bad when any other politician misbehaves? Consistency is necessary to make the system hold together. Trump behaving in a manner consistent with the laws and of a high ethical standard would be really nice. It would be nice if any president behaved that way. We're still waiting for one that does. On the scale of presidents Trump scores pretty highly for good behaviour. He hasn't invaded a country under false pretences which makes him the best Republican president in around 30 years. We can speculate that any war crimes he committed were probably more accidental than the purposeful use of torture by the Bush administration too.
And then tomorrow someone will be arguing that these are the people who should control healthcare or education or whatever.
I realize no set of facts will change your mind. The difference between the classified documents cases has been pointed out several times in this thread, yet you continue to point to that as some kind of evidence of equivalence. If you don't want to acknowledge the difference between owning up to a fuckup and intentionally obstructing an investigation to try and cover up your misdeeds, there’s nothing more to be said about that.
If you consider Biden pardoning his son so egregious, I think you’d agree the pardons of the thousand defendants of the violent riot on January 6 would be even more disgraceful? If your cherry picked metric for a good president is “didn’t start a war”, I’ll counter with “didn’t encourage riots to obstruct the peaceful transition of power, then pardon all those involved to intimidate anyone who dares challenge him”
It’s pretty clear to me the only person who Trump cares about is Trump. I don’t understand why anyone would defend a person with such obvious disdain and lack of empathy for people, so I’ll just leave it at that. Enjoy the carnage that Trump leaves behind for the rest of us to pick up and rebuild.
Creating false equivalencies between situations that _sound_ like they might be similar but aren’t the same thing, is one of the logical fallacies most frequently deployed by Trump’s MAGA base. To some extent it’s a waste of time to engage, although I applaud that you attempted to do so in good faith.
> I realize no set of facts will change your mind. The difference between the classified documents cases has been pointed out several times
If new facts come out I might, but the these facts are fairly long in the tooth by now and they aren't persuasive. When it came out that Biden was doing the same thing an already flimsy case fell apart in in the clowny way that things do when Trump is involved. The best part is they just did a big poll over in the US and the verdict came back that they very much prefer Trump and he can do whatever he likes with classified documents.
There is a lesson here for the Dems; if they want to paint their opponent as bumbling and corrupt they shouldn't have appointed someone as bumbling and corrupt as Biden to the top job. They had a good few years and now that decision has gotten them another dose of Trump.
> If your cherry picked metric for a good president is “didn’t start a war”...
I don't know what your complaint is about that, wars are one of the most crippling mistakes that US presidents keep making, both in terms of global and domestic damage done. The resources wasted are gargantuan, the death tolls staggering, the cruelty are unbearable and the cynicism dark. The risks of something going really badly wrong are unacceptably high too. If focusing on that grim stain on America's honour is cherry picking then you should consider doing more of that. It's one of the big issues in the US and an ongoing one.
> It’s pretty clear to me the only person who Trump cares about is Trump.
Yeah we all know. You don't have to tell the right wingers that politicians suck, that is core plank of right-wing theory of governance is that they're all irredeemable scum or close to becoming that. The problem is the leftist delusion that there is a way to consistently find good politicians is what gets them caught flat-footed when someone like Biden gets the spotlight shined upon them, costing arguments credibility.
Biden gave Trump way more leniency about improperly storing classified documents than he gave himself. Because trump didn’t merely improperly store those documents, he stole them and then hid them and then lied about their existence when questioned about them, and then refused to give them back when formally asked for them.
Stop pretending that Trump is the same as Democrats. He is in a league of criminality that he shares with his buddy Putin, and it’s way worse than any we have ever seen in the US.
That's a lot of the times the difference. Many left leaning people will say "and they should be prosecuted too" which is almost ... shocking ... to some on the other side (and not in part because they really see it as 'sides').
> Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation
Horseshit. You act as though it's some wild cockeyed theory. There are audit trails for classified documents. The President's office was the last who had them. He and his staffers were shown on national fucking TV carrying boxes that looked identical onto a plane and into his private residence. And then he lied about it, and attempted to conceal evidence and obstruct justice.
Your spin is disingenous at best. "Bullying". And if you think the public mostly thought Trump was being unfairly "bullied" and intimated over those documents, then that says something about your perspective.
Also for complete clarity, since Biden had a very similar thing happen with the improper storing of documents: He shouldn't be doing that either. Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. But I don't think it should have been ignored because "well, -he- has a '(D)' after his name".