> This model can work fine if the AI researchers collaborate with mathematicians or artists to understand that the use of AI is actually useful in the workflow of those fields, but often that doesn't happen and there is a savior-like arrogance where AI researchers think they'll just automate those fields.
In my experience, the vast majority is people who are hobbyists or amateurs in those fields, who are looking to innovate in approaches — eg, the overwhelming majority of AI music is hobbyists using models to experiment. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of people using AI graphics tools are making memes or pictures to share with friends.
Those people are poorly served by the artisanal approach and are looking to create more art — they’re not engaging in “savior-like arrogance” but trying to satisfy unmet desire for new music and art. You’re merely being snooty.
> But in the case of art, and I (and Hardy) would argue academic math, there's a human aspect that can't be removed.
This is the pretentiousness I called out (and you completely failed to address):
> That’s the need that, eg, automated theorem proving truly solves — and mathematicians are being ignored (much like artist) by people they turn up their noses at.
Nobody is stopping you from your artisanal proofs — have at it. You’re refusing to do the ugly work people actually want, so they’re solving their problems with a tool that doesn’t involve you.
I think we're actually in agreement with respect to the needs of AI in music and graphics. When I say "AI researchers" I'm talking about people in industrial and academic labs. I consider the hobbyists you describe to be the users (who obviously can also be researchers). It's the desires/needs of the latter that should drive the research agenda of the former.
I actually don't understand your position here or what you think I'm arguing for. My point is that the real musicians, artists and mathematicians (whether they're hobbyists, academics or professionals in industry) are not well served by detached AI researchers just trying to automate their work for them. They need AI researchers to understand their workflows and build tools that elevate them, i.e. bicycles for the mind (or hands?).
Again, I do recognize there may be new fully automated workflows that can come out of AI research too but I maintain that the actual artists, musicians and mathematicians today have a valuable role in guiding that development too.
In my experience, the vast majority is people who are hobbyists or amateurs in those fields, who are looking to innovate in approaches — eg, the overwhelming majority of AI music is hobbyists using models to experiment. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of people using AI graphics tools are making memes or pictures to share with friends.
Those people are poorly served by the artisanal approach and are looking to create more art — they’re not engaging in “savior-like arrogance” but trying to satisfy unmet desire for new music and art. You’re merely being snooty.
> But in the case of art, and I (and Hardy) would argue academic math, there's a human aspect that can't be removed.
This is the pretentiousness I called out (and you completely failed to address):
> That’s the need that, eg, automated theorem proving truly solves — and mathematicians are being ignored (much like artist) by people they turn up their noses at.
Nobody is stopping you from your artisanal proofs — have at it. You’re refusing to do the ugly work people actually want, so they’re solving their problems with a tool that doesn’t involve you.