Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Sure, thanks for the explanation! I didn't mean to imply that this was intentionally misleading, just wanted to point out that a lot (most?) of people, including mainstream media, are using the term "government agency" with a meaning closer to your first definition. And with that in mind it's valid to say that the exec branch actually does have the power to create / disband agencies. And even if we stick to the latter definition of the "agency" - it feels like there's a certain asymmetry here. Perhaps EOs can't be used to create a new agency, because that requires new funding to be approved by another branch. But what about disbanding an existing agency? That doesn't require approving new funding, right? So what stopping an EO to disband an agency?


Sure - let me try to give you a complete answer.

So the thing about appropriations is - they actually have to spend them unless it says something else.

It's not like a budget. It's an order to spend money a certain way. That's why generally congress is said to have the power of the purse - they give the directions on how money is spent.

So appropriations come with directions, time frames, etc.

The executive branch must spend them as directed, and they must be applied to the specific purpose as directed.

This is also why you will sometimes find federal agencies or the military spending infinite money towards the end of the fiscal year, because they are just making sure they spent all the money they were supposed to. Again, sometimes the appropriation says "spend up to", etc. But whatever it says, they have to do it.

So if they say "you have to spend 1 billion on USAID", they must in fact, spend 1 billion on USAID.

Let's take the agencies that are specifically authorized or created by congress out of the picture - they literally can't disband these (and i don't believe they've tried yet). These are usually the things created or later authorized by bills that say something like "their shall be an office of the xyz" or something similar.

So for example, CPFB is here: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:12%20section:...

(I just picked a random one, the establishment language is fairly standard, the rest i have no opinion on :P)

Given it is created and provided for by law, it must be disbanded in the same manner - legislation that removes it.

So if we are sticking to the other ones - it basically comes down to whether an appropriations bill allows it in some fashion.

Does it say "1 billion must be spent on USAID" or does it say "1 billion must be spent on giving aid to ukraine" or does it say ....

That is what in practice, enables or prevents an EO from disbanding an agency that is not specifically provided for by congress.

At least, as far as money/etc goes. There may be other reasons they can or can't disband an agency.

For example, Congress has a congressional research service that provides it with information. It is basic to the functioning of congress (or just slightly above basic). Whether established by law or not, it's unlikely to be constitutional for the executive to disband an agency that another branch depends on, since they are supposed to be coequal branches. This has rarely, if ever, been tested in practice though.

Even when different branches have hated each other with a passion in the past, the degree to which they would test the limits of constitutional power while pissing on each other was fairly restrained.

There are a few exceptions, but they are definitely the exception and not the rule.

Also keep in mind - while the president has some special powers, the general purpose of the executive branch is simple - to faithfully execute the laws. The only discretion in even doing that comes from the laws themselves and the constitution's description of the executive's discretion.

EO's (no matter who makes them) were not intended to be a path for the executive to do whatever it wants, and use power not granted to the executive

I say this not offering a view on the legality or not or wisdom or not, just trying to make sure i answer your question completely.


So let's take the case of USAID.

USAID was "created" by EO originally, but was recreated in 1998 by congressional act (The Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998, 22 U.S.C. 6501 et seq.):

"(a) In general Unless abolished pursuant to the reorganization plan submitted under section 6601 of this title, and except as provided in section 6562 of this title, there is within the Executive branch of Government the United States Agency for International Development as an entity described in section 104 of title 5. "

(there is being the key words here. Not there can be)

The last relevant appropriations bill (section 7063 of the FY24 State and Foreign Operations Appropriations Act) says:

" Sec. 7063. (a) Prior Consultation and Notification.--Funds appropriated by this Act, prior Acts making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs, or any other Act may not be used to implement a reorganization, redesign, or other plan described in subsection (b) by the Department of State, the United States Agency for International Development, or any other Federal department, agency, or organization

[[Page 138 STAT. 844]]

funded by this Act without prior consultation by the head of such department, agency, or organization with the appropriate congressional committees: Provided, <<NOTE: Requirement.>> That such funds shall be subject to the regular notification procedures of the Committees on Appropriations: Provided further, That any such notification submitted to such Committees shall include a detailed justification for any proposed action: Provided further, That congressional notifications submitted in prior fiscal years pursuant to similar provisions of law in prior Acts making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs may be deemed to meet the notification requirements of this section.

    (b) Description of Activities.--Pursuant to subsection (a), a 
reorganization, redesign, or other plan shall include any action to-- (1) expand, eliminate, consolidate, or downsize covered departments, agencies, or organizations, including bureaus and offices within or between such departments, agencies, or organizations, including the transfer to other agencies of the authorities and responsibilities of such bureaus and offices; (2) expand, eliminate, consolidate, or downsize the United States official presence overseas, including at bilateral, regional, and multilateral diplomatic facilities and other platforms; or (3) expand or reduce the size of the permanent Civil Service, Foreign Service, eligible family member, and locally employed staff workforce of the Department of State and USAID from the staffing levels previously justified to the Committees on Appropriations for fiscal year 2024. "

So the executive branch cannot eliminate, reorg, or downsize USAID without, at a minimum, consulting with congress.

Given current events, we'll see what happens.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: