Dance wasn’t critical. It was something people did at night when they had nothing to do sitting around the communal fire. It’s not critical.
Critical are the communities and communal activities. Those have disappeared. We need to live in environments where people eat in communal environments not centered around nuclear families. That’s the critical piece that is missing and making everyone feel empty.
Music and dance is but an aspect of this.
Generally humanity evolved to live in tribes and that is where we are most content. In modern times the closest where I’ve seen this is living in dorms or places with shared kitchens and communal eating areas. This promotes the type of communities that make humans happiest.
There was a wave of business plans and startups that tried to tackle this problem by building apartment communities that are more “social”. One that exists nowadays is https://www.flow.life/en/. But these businesses get it all wrong because they lack the communal kitchen and eating areas. The environment needs to have a forcing function to make people form communities not have it as some optional social event. The former makes people much much much closer and the bonds much stronger. Anyone who’s lived in such an environment can attest to this.
Respectfully, I am not interested in apartment buildings that are more social. I already live in one where laundry facilities are shared and a court yard is shared as well between everyone.
Despite the fact that there are signs everywhere in the laundry rooms with a list of tasks that need to be done at the end of the session, from my experience, 50% of the time, none of the tasks such as sweep the floors, clean the filters of the dryers are done.
Most people simply don't care.
Same with the courtyard, people let their kids run free in it and at the end of playtime, the kids just leave all their toys, bikes, pushbikes everywhere so much so that if you want to go in the courtyard, you basically have to move things out of the way.
The parents are there watching their kids during playtime but it doesnt come to their mind that someone else might want to use the space. They have no consideration for anyone but themselves when it would take just a few minutes to gather all the toys and put them in a corner somewhere.
Then there is the noise, people leave their dogs alone and the dogs start barking for hours because it's scared and when you suggest that maybe they should take the dog with them, they act all offended as if you suggested something truly horrible.
Not to mention, the guy who decides that 2am on a Wednesday is the perfect time to blast music with his windows open.
So, no thanks , I have had enough of communal living. Most people just don't know how to behave in a community and I am tired of picking up the slack of other people and being see as the bad guy on the block because I ask people to follow some basic rules so that we can all live together peacefully.
The apartment thing is besides the point. The communal eating is the main thing. You might be interested in a setup that’s more like a duplex with your own yard and own everything but only when you eat you go to a cafeteria.
That being said I’m aware the setup I’m talking about is more suited for single people.
Additionally, I currently live in an apartment where none of the issues you mentioned exist.
> The apartment thing is besides the point. The communal eating is the main thing. You might be interested in a setup that’s more like a duplex with your own yard and own everything but only when you eat you go to a cafeteria.
I don't think so. Why would I subject myself to that? I have lived in shared dorms while in college and the kitchens were nasty not to mention the toilets and showers. What makes you think this setup would be any different?
This kind of place can only work if the rules are followed by everyone and if someone steps out of line, then consequences need to happen.
> Additionally, I currently live in an apartment where none of the issues you mentioned exist.
Respectfully, I have lived in apartments practically my whole life, there is always someone who thinks that they own the whole building and starts making life a misery for everyone else.
No this is stupid. Dance is super important, because it allows one or two people or just a few to form an instant social pod and enjoy themselves for a few hours.
I have a friend like you who wants everyone to live in "communities" with "communal living". He is just ultimately bossy and alienates all his friends (including me to be honest).
Try and force me to get to know my neighbours -- I simply will not. The last thing I need is someone trying to borrow "butter" or "dropping by" from 603 interrupting my desperately needed self time after working a 10 hour day.
Let me find my own friends and leave me alone to go out DANCING! And I'll find my friends no problem!
> I have a friend like you who wants everyone to live in "communities" with "communal living". He is just ultimately bossy and alienates all his friends (including me to be honest).
You’re the same as your friend. You called my idea stupid. I forgive you but this style of conversation leads immediately to conflict rather than thoughtful discussion. You are just like your friend and you likely don’t realize it.
That being said I can’t agree with you. Men typically don’t like to dance. It’s not a thing. Eating is a thing. Agree to disagree but I don’t think your pov represents the general consensus.
Not sure what the cool thing is these days -- but for me at a Pantera concert it was for 99.5% men moshing in front of the band and it was awesome haha.
Not sure where you get your stat from anyways -- seems most of my local Latin dance groups have loads of men (more than women) sitting on the sidelines waiting for their chance to show their stuff : ))
IT IS THE CARS. All of our communal space has been gutted to make more room for cars, which do the exact opposite of community building, as they abstract the human away from the world and you're left with an extremely dangerous, noisy, and angry public space.
>The former makes people much much much closer and the bonds much stronger. Anyone who’s lived in such an environment can attest to this.
I lived in this kind of kind of setup in school. And with all respect, no. Not even close.
My lived experience was that of someone that was the target of said groups to bond over bullying. The verbal abuse I could take. The spitting on my face, the punches to my gut that left me bruised for days on end, fine. No permanent damage.
But I had my throat strangled more times then I want to remember; hands, wires, cords, rope cutting the air off from my lungs and seeing the gray take over my vision. Blacking out over and over again as they derived whatever joy that they took in having my body slump still between their fingers.
And that was every moment I of my existence. No escape. No safety. No relief. I just had to endure and bear it, because what other choice was there? Who was going to help? Who'd believe the word of the wierdo over that of the model students? And they for their part, insist that that what they did was nothing wrong. I didn't die or was maimed, ergo, no foul.
Maybe what you describe is great if you're part of the in group, and if so, great! Go and live in these arrangements then. But what you describe is a living hell for the people that become the target of torment for those groups where no where to run.
As dark as it is, your experience confirms my theory. A group of bullies bonded enough to inflict violence. That level of bond is extremely strong, however dark.
Battle, combat, bullying and tribal warfare are all outcomes when different group forming strong bonds. It's a part of human nature.
You're right if you are part of the group, that's the ideal. But if you're the target of said group it's better to be not allow these groups to even be formed so you can't be a target period.
That being said what you describe is less likely to happen in adult communities because the stakes are higher. When I was younger I was bullied too. I think what ended up happening is that I returned to school and smashed my bullies face in with a bat and if that wasn't going to end it I was going to knife him from behind. The bat was enough and he stopped bullying me, which was the smart thing to do because the hatred and rage I was feeling probably would've ended his life and ruined my own as well.
Once the stakes were higher everyone stops that bullying thing and that's basically what the adult world becomes. Higher stakes, jail time and actual assets and resources can be lost without mom and pop defending you once you're an adult. I understand you have trauma... but I think what happened to us as children no longer applies in the adult world.
In the adult world war behavior like this becomes actual murder and war. So I'm not saying tribal warfare doesn't exists as adults. I'm more referring to say where I live (an average US suburb in CA) where this kind of behavior will only happen to kids.
I'm agreeing with you for the most part. I just want to be far away from your ideal world because ultimately speaking people like me are the ones that exploited. It really sucks to be one the wrong side.
>Once the stakes were higher everyone stops that bullying thing and that's basically what the adult world becomes. Higher stakes, jail time and actual assets and resources can be lost without mom and pop defending you once you're an adult. I understand you have trauma... but I think what happened to us as children no longer applies in the adult world.
I disagree; you're thinking in terms of me being a random victim.
My bullies were quite cognizant of the consequences if they were caught. Alibis were often discussed, and they always made sure to pick locations that where unlikely to be interrupted or observed. But I think they picked me also because most importantly they knew that I was likely to keep silent. Coupled with a criminal justice system that has both hands tied and clogged with far more pressing matters, and an institution that have weigh the reputational damage vs trying to help and well...
And there in lies the rub. So long as the group either picks the victims carefully, they can keep going on. People's nature don't change all that much even as they mature IME. Just that thy get smarter and more careful about getting what they want.
Says you. For me it is. I suspect for many others it is. I have restless legs syndrome. It’s a neurological disorder that makes your legs and feet feel like they have to move. A lot of people have it. Doctors prescribe drugs for it. What actually helps me? Dancing. This is just one of many good effects I get from dancing. My legs and body need to move. I’m not a good dancer. I look like an idiot. But I absolutely have to dance.
Everyone is going to have passions. Passions aren't critical. And dancing with someone you see once at a Meetup who never shows up again isn't how you make a community.
Eating is critical. Everyone needs food. That's why cultures and subcultures all have their unique cuisine. When you eat in a group it's almost inevitable that socialization happens. You gotta delineate from micro (you) and macro (the entire community) factors. No one's saying you cannot dance.
Why are passions not critical? Also what would we define as critical?
People have been kept alive with IV only diets. So in that case food would not be critical either.
Nobody really needs food (or food-culture) to be kept alive.
Food is just a substance we need to enjoy the rest of the important things ;)
Maslow's hierarchy is discredited but it works enough for this simple model. I feel I explained this well enough. If I struggle to keep paying rent (housing and security, the second layer), why would I place my passions, my esteem 2 levels up, over that?
It's possible to be happy and homeless, but not likely. I can't dance well if I'm hungry on the streets.
>Nobody really needs food (or food-culture) to be kept alive
Your biology disagrees, but I wish you the best of luck.
Food culture is the third level, belonging. I'd say it's more critical than your passions, but that's definitely where the pyramid starts to get hazy (hence the discreditation). You can argue a dance culture, but everyone eats food. Not everyone dances.
What I described was a specific health issue which was relieved by dancing. This indicates to me that this kind of movement is biologically essential, not just a passion. Dancing also improves mood. Depression is rampant in our society. People have solved it with SSRIs, but exercise and movement are very effective also. Again, that’s more evidence that humans need to move, and dancing is what our programming seems to want us to do.
"Our programming" wants us to keep moving. Moving flows blood through the system and focuses your need on providing energy to the rest of your body, including your brain. You wind this down, and your systems slows with the rest of you.
You can move without dancing. Dancing is a social feature, not a biological one.
Dancing is efficient as a physical activity and a physical exercise but not critical. Food is critical. Dancing with food scarcity is just a waste of vital calories to survive.
Very confused on how so many are arguing that dancing is more important than basic energy. Guess it shows who has really struggled in life.
> There was a wave of business plans and startups that tried to tackle this problem by building apartment communities that are more “social”. One that exists nowadays is https://www.flow.life/en/.
> But these businesses get it all wrong because they lack the communal kitchen and eating areas.
The problem as I see, given a choice, people rather eat/do/listen/feel things that they want, not the things they’re being forced on. In the past, you didn’t really have a choice and was forced to do what everyone is doing. Now, to live in such communities, you’ll have to get rid of the choice. Which also sucks.
>The problem as I see, given a choice, people rather eat/do/listen/feel things that they want, not the things they’re being forced on. In the past, you didn’t really have a choice and was forced to do what everyone is doing. Now, to live in such communities, you’ll have to get rid of the choice. Which also sucks.
In the communal situations you have choice. You prepay for the food per month and it works like a buffet. So to save money you should eat what's provided. But you have choice to forego it. This is very typical of dorm life in colleges and it leads to really close bonding with everyone on the floor.
Critical are the communities and communal activities. Those have disappeared. We need to live in environments where people eat in communal environments not centered around nuclear families. That’s the critical piece that is missing and making everyone feel empty.
Music and dance is but an aspect of this.
Generally humanity evolved to live in tribes and that is where we are most content. In modern times the closest where I’ve seen this is living in dorms or places with shared kitchens and communal eating areas. This promotes the type of communities that make humans happiest.
There was a wave of business plans and startups that tried to tackle this problem by building apartment communities that are more “social”. One that exists nowadays is https://www.flow.life/en/. But these businesses get it all wrong because they lack the communal kitchen and eating areas. The environment needs to have a forcing function to make people form communities not have it as some optional social event. The former makes people much much much closer and the bonds much stronger. Anyone who’s lived in such an environment can attest to this.