I've been burned out for two years after moving to a new country to work in one of the worst post-docs of my life. But, I've found I have no one to rely on but myself because employers don't care that you're burned out, they want to keep up their kpis. Sometimes you have to work even if you're already unhealthy.
By the way, this isn't a "when the going gets tough" sort-of post, I'm just stating the reality of life.
My company sends out blasts to everyone that tells us to take care of our mental health and stuff like that, but it’s all a show. Our actually managers drive us into the ground and any sign of weakness are met with a kick while the person is down. Everyone I work with is burned out and miserable, but too scared to say anything about it or take the time they need. Hearing grown men break down and cry on calls isn’t fun. I’ve heard it several times now.
At this point, quitting seems like the only option. However, I’m in what should be the best earning years of my life, and it seems like any new job would mean a pay cut. I don’t want to cut my legs out from under myself… especially when a new job is an unknown, it could be even worse. I also have this idea in my head that I would be able to be mentally strong enough to find happiness in any situation, and if I run away from something bad, rather than being pulled toward something better, than I won’t grow as a person.
> At this point, quitting seems like the only option.
Man, given this story, I think you have way more options. Like burning the place down, Milton-with-the-red-stapler style.
Jokes aside, GTFO that place, bro. Leave a harsh glassdoor review for the cathartic release (even if it won't get posted). The grass is definitely greener somewhere else even if it might be a gamble to find it.
Just note down everything you don't like about your current shithead employer and ask yourself, "what questions can I ask in an interview that will reveal these shithead employer tendencies?" Then go interview and remember that you are interviewing THEM. Don't worry about actually getting the job, interviews are a coin flip anyhow, just worry about how much shithead signal you're getting from them. If you end up jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire, just update your list of shithead employer questions and do it again. Life is way, way too short to deal with shitheads. Love yourself more than that.
> Hearing grown men break down and cry on calls isn’t fun. I’ve heard it several times now.
Okay. Let me stop you right there. If that is something that happened once, I could believe you ran across someone who wasn't very emotionally balanced at the time. Twice could be a coincidence. Three times or more means you work in one of the most toxic workplaces I have ever heard of.
I want to be a crystal clear as I can on this point, so I'm going to raise my voice a bit to be heard: THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
> I don’t want to cut my legs out from under myself… especially when a new job is an unknown, it could be even worse.
Yes, a new job is an unknown. But that's life, change is a constant and you have to embrace and embody that in order to truly thrive.
Based on the fact that very few companies are staffed entirely of psychopaths, outside of fintech anyway, let me ask you this: do you really think throwing a dart at a random list of companies is likely to hit one that's materially worse?
Either way, if you're not happy where you're at, wouldn't it make sense to throw the dart anyway, just to see where it hits?
> and it seems like any new job would mean a pay cut.
1. You are already halfway to the mental ward if you think a little extra money is worth all your sanity.
2. You are probably wrong anyway. If one company is willing to pay you X dollars for your skills and experience, others will too. In fact, and I speak from recent experience here, many are willing to pay a great deal more.
> I also have this idea in my head that I would be able to be mentally strong enough to find happiness in any situation, and if I run away from something bad, rather than being pulled toward something better, than I won’t grow as a person.
No offense, but that is extremely backwards thinking. Would you continue to live with a physically abusive partner until a better mate showed up on your doorstep? No? Why would you continue to live with an emotionally abusive one?
It sounds like you are waiting to be rescued from this situation by something or someone. Let me assure you: no one is coming to save you. You are the one in charge of your physical and mental well being. That isn't to say you shouldn't ask for help, but you need to be the one to stand up to whatever fears are holding you back and say, enough with this bullshit, enough working for fuckwits, I deserve respectful coworkers, competent managers, and rewarding work.
You may not find complete happiness, but you don't have to stand for constant misery.
Funny you say that. We seem to use various fintech companies as our feeder for senior management positions, who then bring in all their people. I usually try to wait them out, as they typically only last a few years. The idea being that it can't get worse, so the next person will be better, but they just keep getting worse somehow. We just got a new guy recently, so the impacts from that remain to be seen.
> do you really think throwing a dart at a random list of companies is likely to hit one that's materially worse?
When I look at job postings online, without relocating, it seems I'd likely take a 25-50% pay cut. I also have some golden handcuffs on me, so I'd have to forfeit a bunch of stock. While money isn't everything, and I keep my cost of living pretty low, it is a concern when I think about retirement.
I've shared some of my frustrations with my dad, who spent his whole career in corporate IT and worked at several different places. I don't know that I brought up the crying, but I've told him quite a bit. His general replies are that he can relate, and will often point to Dilbert to show that it's the same everywhere... if it wasn't, that comic wouldn't have been popular. I've also seen people leave and beg to come back. These things together make me think the grass isn't always greener.
On the flip side, I've also seen a lot of people leave who end up with a permanent smile on their face after leaving. Several have also lost significant amounts of weight, as they stop needing various coping mechanisms or find healthier outlets.
I suppose this means the fear of regret is stronger than the hope that something new will be better.
My old boss seems to have a standing offer if I want to go work for him. However, a former co-worker did, and he texted me about a month ago saying how bad it was. And the boss is saying he makes less than me now, so the pay cut comes up again. While he liked me and gave me a lot of autonomy, he also lied to me for several years, manipulating me to sell my house and move several states away from home. When I was finally fed up and decided to move back near family/friends in my home state, he tried to keep the lie going. I called him on it, and found out it was all BS. So I'm not excited to jump into that again.
> No offense, but that is extremely backwards thinking. Would you continue to live with a physically abusive partner until a better mate showed up on your doorstep? No? Why would you continue to live with an emotionally abusive one?
I think what screws with me is that I will occasionally see someone who seems happy in spite of it all. It's rare sight, but there are a couple. I wonder what their secret is and how I can get to that place, where I can be happy in spite of my circumstances. Maybe it's all an act.
> I deserve respectful coworkers, competent managers, and rewarding work.
My coworkers, the ones I've been working with for 10-15 years, I like. I feel some loyalty to them. Maybe I shouldn't, but we've been in the trenches together for a long time. They've had my back and I've had theirs.
When it comes to management competence and rewarding work, that's currently at an all time low. I used to take on a lot of these shortcomings myself, to fill the gaps in leadership, but with 4 re-orgs leading to 4 new bosses, in 4 years... I'm sick of starting over and sick of doing other people's job, so I stopped. So far it's not gone well and everything is worse as a result, which has me questioning if I should go back to working 60-80 hour weeks to try and get the house in order as I've done in the past, but these people don't deserve that. I don't deserve that. And if I do all that work, they're just going to re-org in 6 months, so it will all be for nothing.
I once told my old boss I thought about quitting every day for 15 years. Though the reasons why changed over time. At first it was impostor syndrome (which also gets in the way when I look for new jobs), then it seemed like I had nothing more to learn and hit a dead end, and now it's the overwhelming toxicity of the culture.
Thanks for the tough love. You've given me a lot to consider. It's a difficult decision for me. It's been one of the few constant things in my life, and as a result I don't have much of a life outside of work. Quitting is an event that would shake loose my identity. Oh god... is this why people stay in abusive relationships for so long?
It depends on where you work, but some employers extend mental health benefits to post-docs as well. Depending on the country, therapists have sliding scales too. The irony of looking for a therapist while you are burned out is that it can be a long process, but there is the chance of it being worth it and to see more options afterwards.
By the way, this isn't a "when the going gets tough" sort-of post, I'm just stating the reality of life.