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(conts) infrastructure upkeep, managing various natural resources, emergency management, weather reporting/forecasting/research, economic reporting/research...

There are so many valuable services provided by the US federal government. People just take it all for granted.



I've always said people should be able to directly allocate where their taxes go within the government expenditures, or be able to file an objection based on religious or philosophical beliefs to having their tax dollars fund morally objectionable things. I would be much happier to pay taxes if they went to funding schools, infrastructure, NASA, emergency management, poverty relief and other useful things instead of putting undocumented immigrants who could be productive members of society in concentration camps or bombing brown people. Furthermore, I am happy to fund particular defense initiatives like supporting Ukraine, but I want a line item veto on unproductive or morally repugnant things the government does.


I’ve gotten to see some of that at a local level and… I just don’t know. We barely managed to pass a local school levy to recoup from a major accounting error that would have meant massive layoffs for the district. It’s a pretty good district academically, and I was shocked at how many empty nesters (new ones, too) were vocal about voting no just because “no new taxes“, despite all of their kids consuming that very system with great benefit for the past 18 years.

A few counties away, the library district said without a tax increase, they’ll have to shut down. “No new taxes” carried the day. Library shut down. Now folks are howling. And again it’s the non-voting kids that suffer.

If this is the behavior of folks about issues affecting their neighbors, in their own town, I’m not too optimistic what sort of support we could see for any kind of longer-term issue, especially if it isn’t atop the media cycle.


The way I (not the previous poster) envision this working is not that you can opt out of taxes, but you can skip certain items.

So I don't pay Israel's defense budget, but that money is reallocated evenly to everything else.

I find it hard to believe a meaningful number of people would opt out of libraries and schools assuming their overall tax burden is unchanged.


This sounds like a good way to accidentally create an industry of reverse lobbyists where the government contracts them to convince tax payers to allocate money to their department.

I might be too pessimistic though, I tend towards liking the idea but I'm concerned about the changes it could cause.


That already happens. Why else would Northrop advertise a stealth jet at the superbowl.


if they vote against a tax levy for a school they will most definitely vote to send the money elsewhere.

Empty nesters or childless people will funnel their tax money to things like parks, fire trucks, and other things.


Hypothecated taxes are an anti-pattern, for precisely this reason. Setting the budget and setting the taxes should be somewhat separated (but not too separated!)


> I've always said people should be able to directly allocate where their taxes go within the government expenditures, or be able to file an objection based on religious or philosophical beliefs to having their tax dollars fund morally objectionable things.

Obviously, this was supposed to be the job of the person you elected.

But in 2024 we definitely have the technology to let people vote on smaller units of issues that they care about.

I would be completely in support of people self-allocating their taxes as long as (1) the distribution still had to add up to 100% so you can’t under contribute and (2) government offices capped their income and redistributed excess to the general funds instead of letting some feel-good departments waste money they didn’t need but were allocated.


The caps must be high enough that departments are in competition for funds. Presumably the outcome is then that the department for fluffy bunnies is funded up to its cap, taking money away from the department for unblocking drains.


> I've always said people should be able to directly allocate where their taxes go within the government expenditures, or be able to file an objection based on religious or philosophical beliefs to having their tax dollars fund morally objectionable things.

Members of Congress often propose things like this because it sounds good but in practice it's meaningless.

Suppose that Democrats don't want to pay for bombs and Republicans don't want to pay for makework jobs, so they both say they don't want their tax money to be used for this. Then the government takes the money from Democrats they didn't spend on bombs and uses it to make up the shortfall in the makework jobs programs and takes the money Republicans didn't spend on makework jobs and uses it to make up the shortfall in the military, and nothing changes at all.

The only way it could actually do something is if you got the money back you didn't want spent on that thing, instead of letting the government spend it on something else. But then most people would do that with large chunks of government spending because they'd rather the money than the programs.


That always sounds nice until you see how it plays out in universities and other charities. The directed donations don't get sent to where they are most needed; they end up funding large vanity projects.


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> Supporting the war in Ukraine is just another example of “bombing brown people”, yet you appear completely oblivious.

How?

Russia invades the Ukraine. Ukraine defends itself. Ukraine's allies, incl. the USA, send weapons. None of the allies, incl. the USA, fight in Ukraine or Russia.

I'm afraid your independent thinking has formed a prejudiced opinion. George Carlin would not be proud.


Of course this time around we have to do the bombing through some middlemen because the brown people have big guns too, and the people aren’t actually brown this time around. They do speak a weird language though and have different cultural values, so maybe that qualifies.

Ukraine isn’t our ally. That’s a silly sentiment. Ukraine is a developing country wholly comparable to say Zambia or Namibia. Our interests just happen to align this way this time around.


Ukraine is a developing country wholly comparable to say Zambia or Namibia.

Ukraine is a highly developed country, in some ways more than the U.S. Its people are certainly way more educated, on average.

If you can't get that part right, then I doubt you have much to tell us about the context of the war or whether Ukraine is an ally or not.


The numbers are all out there, behind 1 minutes of searching.

My wife's side of the family is entirely Russian, so I have some basic knowledge on the subject.


The numbers are all out there, behind 1 minutes of searching.

And they speak decidedly against your claims:

https://hdr.undp.org/system/files/documents/hdr2020.pdf

Ukraine's development ranking is classed as 'High', while Namibia and Zambia are both classed as 'Medium'.

My wife's side of the family is entirely Russian, so I have some basic knowledge on the subject

I have direct knowledge of the country as well. Your relatives can say whatever they want to say.


A handy report crafted by biased people in some unproductive sinecures, but the numbers really do speak for themselves.


So you've never actually seen "the numbers", is what I'm hearing.

Yet you know they're out there somewhere, and that they speak for themselves.


> Ukraine isn’t our ally. That’s a silly sentiment.

You know what, I agree.


The US has no allies, only interests. It interests us to be adversarial to Russia. It interests us to "bomb brown people". None of which is done out of some moral duty.


Is this supposed to be some insight? The very definition of "alliance" says: groups or people who work together because of shared interests. You ally because you share interests, e.g. a specific goal.




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