I’m not saying it didn’t happen as described, but this really kinda reads like the “Bald eagle named Albert Einstein flew into the classroom” copypasta…
Never let facts get in the way of a good story. The build-up is great (VP's car, elementary school, military base) and the punchline is funny, but it's just a bit too perfect ("and what's above us?", cue clouds). Even the name Bob sounds like it's been chosen for comedy.
It's clearly a mostly true story that's been refined and polished over the years.
Was curious so I looked it up - Jose Antonio Vargas Elementary School is right by Moffet Field. The school also abuts an industrial park that fits the description.
One of the current tenants there is Volvo Innovation Lab, which I imagine does laser testing. I have no idea if buildings need certain certifications for working with lasers, so I mention that tidbit.
As well, that office park has 16 buildings in it, by my count.
Also, the guy had enough happen to him. He doesn't need his actual name put in the story. One might hope that in the intervening 25 years he would have improved, especially after such an expensive lesson.
As I read through it, it does sound like an apocryphal old story, since too many of the details are too perfect setups for the teller.
Then again, occasionally real life really does happen unbelieveably, including when fudge-ups are involved.
Maybe what's most unbelieveable is that, to the extent the story tells, the only known injured person was the laser safety officer.
Presumably the safety person was partly in the loop on some other injuries, but maybe they're NDA'd on that, yet not NDA'd on mentioning the incident. Or, maybe an incident like that was kept very quiet by a company, and injured people never knew how they got injured.
Then there's this:
> It has been brought to my attention that I have never actually written this story down before, merely told it in person to many students for valuable lessons and also for laughs over cocktails.
Did they only give verbal reports and verbal depositions/testimony? Never wrote up a report for internal use or for professional publication?
"Laughs over cocktails" could mean finding humor in the ridiculousness of disaster, and taking a battle scar in stride. Could also be a hint that the entire story is a fabricated/embellished/appropriated story, like people often tell recreationally when drinking, and understood in that context for what it is.
> Did they only give verbal reports and verbal depositions/testimony? Never wrote up a report for internal use or for professional publication?
I read that line as being in the context of the authors blog. As in “I’ve referenced this here before, and told the story to people in person, but never written out the story here on my blog.” Not literally saying that this is the first time in history any part of this story was committed to some form of the written word.
Yes, I don't want to speculate, but would hope that, for whatever happened, the affected people were notified, and all the appropriate safety officer processes were followed up on.
Or, the story might have started a bit like when grandkids ask grandpa how he got that arm injury, and instead of telling the troubling story about shrapnel in the war, or the car crash, he tongue in cheek tells a fantastic tall tale of fishing, when along comes a bear who wanted to eat his fish, chock full of lessons.
That could've been a goal with students: if one ran out of real-world case studies to drive home laser safety practices, a semi-plausible, if over-the-top, narrative of how a not-unlikely cavalier mistake could become a clusterfudge, with the story of course hitting all the safety practices they were just told about.
There would normally be verbal cues as to the kind of story, and there'd be the context of telling, both of which are lost in blog posts.
I worked for a few weeks in a class with a custom infrared -> green laser. The teacher were very hard about glasses, how to crouch looking away from the laser table, close the door and a few more security measures. And later, I had a 5W (0.5W?) green laser at 3 yards pointed at me [1] with some optical equipment bolted to the table in the middle so there was (almost) no possibility that it hit me.
The story sounds real.
[1] If all the bolted devices in the middle magically fall down, the laser would have hit my belly, not my eyes. So it's important to crouch looking away, just in case.
Nd:YAG lasers always creep me out. I worked in a lab that had an Nd:YAG with two janky doublers: 1064 -> 532 -> 266 nm. The output energy was supposed to be a few mJ (IIRC), but it was basically zero. So the students operating it took off the second doubler and fired it at a bookend. Nothing (well, nothing visible). Took off the first doubler. After investigation, the zapping sound was the paint vaporizing off a computer at the other end of the lab, because the beam was actually scooting just past the bookend. 1064 nm is almost the worst wavelength you can work with. (Okay, 233nm is probably worse, but the available energy with a setup like this is much lower.)
I have a green laser pointer, and I made a point of buying a diode laser. It’s a slightly different color than 532, its battery life is better, but, critically, there is no way it could malfunction or be sloppily constructed to leak infrared light.
I just searched Amazon. There are plenty of green “diode” lasers, 532nm, ~100mW, for very little money. I don’t believe that for a second — those are surely crappy frequency doubled Nd:YAG lasers, probably unfiltered (that filter wouldn’t be cheap, and it might fail anyway under that ridiculous power level), and they will blind you when some funny reflection of the, I dunno, 500mW of stray IR light hits your eye.
Now that real name brand laser pointers are mostly gone, if you actually want green, get a 515nm laser or something along those lines. Stay away from 532nm!
I have a friend with multiple green and red lasers, some from aliexpress.
Years ago when the hype wasnt really there he visited me and wanted to show off. I have 3 dogs and I really like this kind of tech but I forbid it to turn that thing on near me, especially in my flat. Even if they are directed away, the chance of unpredictable reflections is just too high for a bit of fun.
Excellent question. You frequency-double 532nm and make a typo. I meant 266nm.
There are crystals that have nonlinear responses to high electric fields, and if you hit them with enough laser light, some of it comes out at half the wavelength. A lot of it also comes out at the original wavelength. Most 532nm lasers work like this, but other input wavelengths are possible, like starting at 532, doubling again, and getting 266nm.
This was a long time ago, and it wasn’t my project, so it’s possible it was slightly different, but I definitely remember the 532nm stage. And 266nm sounds credible for what the group was trying to do with the laser.
There are some recent papers on doing it, and they even seem to have gotten decent efficiency.
The lab I was in was doing this in 2000, and I suspect they got their frequency doubler from some other lab. It worked, but it certainly didn’t work well. The 1064nm laser was decently large (a couple J per pulse, from vague memory), and the expected UV energy was quite low. The laser was being used for some form of imaging at short range (fluorescence or absorption in burning gasses? Maybe Raman spectroscopy if everything got lucky?).
Crouch? When training technicians, the first thing is, you never ever bend your waist in the laser room, with lasers on. Your head never enters the plane of the laser beams. You do not put your ahead above the laser. You use a piece of copy paper to earache for stray beams near the apparatus. You use an IR viewer to (shock yourself as to how many there are to) find 1064nm stray beams.
The sales guy set up the entire rig on his own? And no other engineers in the lab stopped to ask what he was doing?
I know some places have poor safety culture, but this is a “laser company”. Basic laser safety should be drilled into them from day 1 and every day after. When I worked in an optics lab, we had interlocks on the doors that switched on with the power supply running the experiment and a sign outside indicating which wavelengths were operating.
The guy was listed as a "sales engineer" which on first glance is the worst sort of oxymoron, everybody knows engineers make terrible salesmen[1]. But perhaps it could work, just take your sleaziest engineer, put them through an intensive indoctrination in chicanery and lies and you get a salesman who almost knows what he is talking about.
1. How do you know if the guy trying to sell you something is the engineer. They will tell you in excruciating detail every flaw and design mistake in the thing and how they should have designed it better. Savor this moment, look past the terrible sales pitch and buy from them, for you have been gifted that elusive thing, the engineer.
My dad was such an engineer doing sales, of industrial components. Grew up on a farm, engineering degree, very honest type churchgoer and family man, and in his spare time DIY projects like a classic engineer type. I'm sure he'd know when something would or wouldn't work, and would candidly tell the customer about any problems or risks. (In this case, maybe honest as much as an engineer personally bothered by design flaws.)
I've also seen a different kind of engineer in sales, where they're paired long-term with salespeople. They sit in on sales meetings as a technical expert, and also do things like customizations and integrations. I suppose the presence of the salesperson helps suppress the engineer's inclination to start riffing on every flaw, but the pairing retains the engineer ability to help the customer be successful with the product.
Yeah, I am a bit rough on sales, but it is critical to doing business. And a good saleman is a wonderful find, talking with someone who is knowledgeable and honest about the product is great.
You're littering via middle school group stereotypes for professions.
You're walking it back a bit by saying you're a bit rough on sales, but what you actually wrote is engineers are bad at sales.
Sales engineer is a well-populated role, and they do their jobs as expected.
On average, an engineer will be worse at sales than a "pure salesman", but that's simply specialization in action. Can't get better at what you don't have an opportunity to practice. We all can do pretty much whatever we want if we put our minds to it.
Sales engineers are very common if you are selling complex industrial products. At a certain point of complexity, selling a product and designing its integration with the customer kind of bridge. You need a deep understanding of the product and process involved to be able to sell it.
I've worked with a few sales engineers by now because I'm the person they try to sell to. I always saw sales engineers as the result of companies realizing that by now they often have to deliver sales pitches to engineers and not just manages managers and procurement folks.
In my case, that's exactly what they need. Sales people creep me out and make me want to hide under my weighted blanket. Sales engineers are the blessing that makes sales calls informative and bearable. I don't know how companies find and recruit them, but they make it happen and I'm very happy they do.
In software we may call them euphemisms like "solutions architects" or "devrel engineers", but sales engineers have always existed. They aren't necessarily the frontline of the sales department, but someone has to go onto the customer site and explain to the customer's engineers exactly how their shiny new purchase is going to integrate into their existing systems and workflows...
I have seen a drunk employee wrestling with a moving industrial robotic arm trying to "fix it" after having disabled the numerous safeties with screwdrivers. This was at a major car manufacturer plant. Do not underestimate the horrible situations people can put themselves in.
Sometimes you fight and curse the volkswagen-special VKRC safety circuits.
And sometimes you think what kind of shenanigans might happen and why it might be better to have complex safety interlocks that mate with entire automation cell controls...
A relative of mine works with assembly-line robots at heavy equipment manufacturers. He told me that while they were calibrating a new robot that was used to move axles for industrial mining dump trucks, a miscalculation caused the robot to fling a 800 lb axle through the air like a marching band baton.
Now that I'd pay to see. If that happened where I worked, I would be so tempted to run the program again with my phone camera out. After telling everyone down-range to get lost of course.
Now would I do it? No... definitely not, as long as the demon on my right shoulder was being quiet that day.
I find this basics of this story believable. I worked at a place that manufactured IR lasers, and where the owner (the "Doctor" as we called him) set up similiar impromptu demonstrations that went awry. Thankfully no one was injured, but some random piece of equipment was damaged by the reflected beam.
It's pretty crazy that the sales guy was able to connect the water cooling and power with enough hosing and cables to bring it outside, as well as know how to operate the device enough to activate it - but couldn't correctly point it _at the ground_ and burn the paint off of the street without melting through a car.
But forgetting that, what are the core safety issues described? I get the direct exposure to unprotected eyes damage, but there's discussion of infra red reflections endangering nearby children + aircraft + casus belli with the US army.
The story says he did point it at the ground, but a) it was reflecting off the reflective paint they were aiming at and b) towards the end the laser was badly misaligned.
Not operating in a controlled environment, no curtains to block stray reflections, not ensuring your optic path is stable and clear of obstructions and reflective objects. Doesn’t sound like they had a beam block around for safety, nor did they first use a lower power visible laser to simulate beam path.
These types of lasers are integrated into end customer systems by techs at a factory. They are very simple to setup from the black box level of understanding. All you do is plug in water (blue hose in and red hose for out) since the electrical system is typical a box that simply plugs into the laser head and the wall outlet. The only factor that could affect the output power that's not on the controls would be the water temperature.
“Sales engineer” sounds like one of those positions that would be regularly setting up demos for customers and have access to the equipment and basic operating procedures.
“Could we use this to burn paint off the road” sounds exactly like the sort of question a person doing a demo might say “I don’t see why not, let’s try it” to.
While with deliberate thought about it, the fact that road markings are retro-reflective is obvious, but it’s not something you would necessarily consider immediately, since it’s called “paint” and almost all paint you encounter in the world is not retro-reflective.
For the rest of it, my reading of the story is multiple things happened here:
1) They initially aimed the IR laser at the paint on the ground. The paint being retro-reflective the laser damaged itself in about an half hour and stopped producing consistent results, just occasional spots of results.
2) The sales person rather than halting the demo to get someone else to take a look at what was malfunctioning continued to fire the laser after making various adjustments not realizing that because the laser had been damaged it was firing not at the ground anymore, but at the car a few spaces away.
3) They’d been messing with the laser after malfunctioning since before the VP parked their car, so there’s possibility they were sending lasers in the direction of the other building, so that’s one issue which would have been bad enough on its own but…
4) At some point the VP parked their car in the path between the laser and the building. As they continued to mess with the malfunctioning laser, they burned through the paint on the side of the car, exposing the bare metal underneath.
5) The bare metal is also highly reflective, but because it’s not retro-reflective the problem is now you had completely uncontrolled reflections. The ones that went backwards had nothing to stop them since there was only a fence and field between the lot and the school. And the ones that went up obviously also had nothing to stop them since they were outside.
6) Because of the unknown detections and quantity of reflection, in addition to getting all the potentially exposed employees and customers checked out, the company would also have to make advisory calls (at a minimum) to the school and the local airports and military installations.
Whether those schools and planes were actually in danger or not could not be said with certainty, but the point was less “oh know we’re terrorists now” and more “this was a huge screw up, and I need to impress on you why it was bigger than just breaking company property or not wearing your safety gear”
I think this is all a good illustration of why "Bob" was (supposedly) fired at the end of the story.
A good sales engineer knows a lot about the product within its normal operating envelope, but especially knows a lot about the boundaries of "normal operation". Bob's very first response to "can this thing do a thing [that Bob should know is outside of its normal operations]?" should have been to go ask the kind of engineer who is involved in defining "normal". And either the capability is investigated (and, if plausible, eventually a "safe" demo is put together, and maybe the definition of "normal" is expanded), or its revealed that it won't work, and that's that. In either case, the rest of the situation never happens, provided Bob is actually good at the engineering side of "sales engineer".
I've heard of one place that had a class IV laser mounted on a robot arm in a public area, which turned itself off when the arm happened to flail in exactly the right way to hit its own emergency stop button.
With highly technical products usually you have at least two guys working on a account:
The salesman, who deals with the business guys on the other side, the folks who will actually sign the check.
The sales engineer, that deal with the guys who will actually use the product, is able to understand their requirements and come up with ways the product can fullfil those, provide Proofs of Concept, demos and initial training for those guys on the other side that will give the final ok to the business people: 'this will work for us, you can sign the check if you want"
The structure of the industry is many small companies that make one specific laser based on the owner's PhD research. These companies cannot have the perfect safety culture simply due to staffing numbers.
Yeah, the story contains some obvious bullshit. There is no way in hell a flashlamp-pumped Nd:YAG laser could cut through a piece of steel. With typical ~Hz repetition rate and ~J pulse energy, the average power is only around 1 W. This is three to five orders of magnitude lower than typical welding lasers. This could burn some paint or engrave metal, but burning through a wheel well and brake line is completely ridiculous.
