>What's a "fair" charge? Students don't pay all of the costs to run a university even in the US, and certainly not outside the US
Outside the US yes. In the US, with what students pay (including the parts covered by subsidies and loans), they could run 2 universities, not just one!
Private colleges do exist outside the US, the students don't pay US college prices to study there, but they still manage to survive and be profitable. But the operating costs of US universities are absurdly high (because they can, not because they need to). Even the "a-list academics" with the huge salaries are more marketing assets to draw students in than real contributors to their education.
Even without the subsidies and loans, it should not be infeasible to have a university supported by tuition feeds and still be affordable and good. And with state subsidies it is
US universities are not coveted because they're so better, they're coveted because they give privileged access to the US market and in a vicious circle the US academic employments. It's where the money and prestige are at, that's their draw.
But kids studing in much cheaper universities Europe, Asia, and so on, come to the US and crush it, as graduate/post-graduate students, or working in IT or STEM. They oftensmoke US-born kid who studies as undergradutes in the US. So it's not like their much cheaper education and much cheaper universities were subpar.
And this means the US universities could also be much much cheaper and be good too. It's the incentives which are misaligned for that, not some impossibility...
> US universities are not coveted because they're so better, they're coveted because they give privileged access to the US market and in a vicious circle the US academic employments. It's where the money and prestige are at, that's their draw.
Of course. This was my point about the demand side of supply and demand.
> And this means the US universities could also be much much cheaper and be good too. It's the incentives which are misaligned for that, not some impossibility...
I didn't say it was impossible. Indeed I was talking about the incentives. You're almost making my point for me by mentioning that people are flocking to the US for economic opportunities, while US students are not flocking to other countries for a cheaper education.
When you talk about a "fair" charge, that can be understood in a number of ways. In terms of market price, what's fair in one country may not be fair in another country, because the markets are different, the supply and demand is different. Whereas if you're talking about fairness in a kind of moral or societal sense, I think it's fair to ask whether the price of a social service ought to depend in some way on one's income, in such a way that the wealthy beneficiaries of the system pay more than the poor. That's a legitimate sociopolitical debate, nothing strange about it, I'd say. After all, certain forms of college financial aid have always depended on those factors.
Outside the US yes. In the US, with what students pay (including the parts covered by subsidies and loans), they could run 2 universities, not just one!
Private colleges do exist outside the US, the students don't pay US college prices to study there, but they still manage to survive and be profitable. But the operating costs of US universities are absurdly high (because they can, not because they need to). Even the "a-list academics" with the huge salaries are more marketing assets to draw students in than real contributors to their education.
Even without the subsidies and loans, it should not be infeasible to have a university supported by tuition feeds and still be affordable and good. And with state subsidies it is
US universities are not coveted because they're so better, they're coveted because they give privileged access to the US market and in a vicious circle the US academic employments. It's where the money and prestige are at, that's their draw.
But kids studing in much cheaper universities Europe, Asia, and so on, come to the US and crush it, as graduate/post-graduate students, or working in IT or STEM. They oftensmoke US-born kid who studies as undergradutes in the US. So it's not like their much cheaper education and much cheaper universities were subpar.
And this means the US universities could also be much much cheaper and be good too. It's the incentives which are misaligned for that, not some impossibility...