It's literally the most used subway system in the United States, and one of the most used in the world. It has an annual ridership of over two billion people. Rail is one of the safest ways of moving people. Out of the two billion rides in 2023 there were 88 deaths and 146 injuries.
Same year, 238 people died and over 100,000 were injured on the road despite a similar share of commuters. So that would make driving at least 3X more dangerous by death toll, and 684X more dangerous by injury count.
Should everyone be forced to wrap themselves in bubble wrap and wear a football helmet when in or anywhere close to a car?
Most people that die on roads are drunk, tired, or speeding. If you don't do those things, your odds are much better.
Compared to the death on the train being almost totally random.
Totally random, and basically zero. People are awful at internalizing and handling tail risk.
This reminds me of the old Schneier article about how despite flying being the single safest way to get between any two places, post-9/11 people were so afraid they started to drive longer distances and the death toll was staggering. It's called "our decreasing tolerance to risk" and it's a good read. [1, 2]
It's true that "your odds are much better." But you can't control them completely. You can't control whether the person who hits you is drunk, tired or looking through coke bottle glasses and going 100mph. You're part of the equation. But even the safest drivers are going to be just about as safe as everyone on the MTA.
There were 88 deaths per two billion rides on the MTA. That's 0.00036%. Car deaths are 1.6 per hundred thousand, or 0.0016%, so 4-5X higher. Injuries though, several orders of magnitude.
I don't have to be concerned with being robbed, stabbed, beaten, abused, assaulted and pushed onto the train tracks in a car. In the NYC subway - you do.
Except the data (a) completely doesn't align with what you're saying and (b) you don't think your car gets broken into, and that those things can't happen to you on the street? You can't get pushed in front of a car? I suggest the burden of proof is on you to show the numbers, and tell us exactly how much riskier it is to take the train. It's not, at all, so it'll be hard to do, but I'm curious how you approach it.
There were 500 carjackings in 2021. 15,000 car thefts last year. Significantly more car break-ins than that.
Do you have some data to back up your assertion, actual numbers? If you'd like to enter that number into evidence, you should source it. If you think taking the subway is risky, back up your assertion, don't just gesture in the general direction. Simply feeling it in your heart isn't enough to make something true. Not that there isn't value in your perception, but if we're going to talk about it we should know which is fact and which is feels.
You've cited the number of people that were killed in cars compared to the subway. Don't you think you should have also included the number of people that were also killed during their journey to and from the subway? Unless you do I don't really think that's a fair comparison.
I'm not the one making the assertion, you are. The burden of proof is on you.
I refer you to Brandolini's law, or the bullshit asymmetry principal. It takes much longer to debunk claims pulled out of thin air than it does to pull them out of thin air. So I'm not going to play that game. If you would like to cite a statistic, you must provide that statistic, otherwise it's as good as made up.
You're saying "I bet a lot of people died leaving subway stations" -- cool. Don't bet. Find it, share it. Then we can talk. Otherwise, I bet the opposite direction and your bet is exactly as valid as mine.
When you're doing that don't forget to compare the number of people who are killed or injured getting from the parking lot to their final destination. Unless you do I don't really think that's a fair comparison.
Lots of the car injuries are to pedestrians and bikers, too, and while you're more in control of your risk profile, the risk profile remains significantly higher no matter how much you control it.
As for safety...
> In mid-2022, there was about one violent crime per one million rides on the subway, according to a New York Times analysis. Since then, the overall crime rate has fallen and ridership has increased, making the likelihood of being a victim of a violent crime even more remote. Last year, overall crime in the transit system fell nearly 3 percent compared with 2022 as the number of daily riders rose 14 percent.
The actual data shows the stations and trains are no more or less safe than any other public area. It's really just perception. [1] So I guess, don't ever go out in public?
> Maybe you don't care, but I'd prefer my little sister drive than take the train at night.
Let's stick to facts and leave the emotions to the side for a minute.
Less than 2% of major crime in NYC happens on the subway. [2] And crime rates on the subway specifically are falling.
Here's the MTA crime report for 2022. Remember to divide these by two billion. [3] Then compare to the odds of getting hit by a car, or while in a car.
I hear they deployed the national guard in the NYC subway. Should commuters also be forced to take mandatory self defense classes?