Pretty sure I'll get downvoted for this, but it needs to be said.
I've got a couple of thoughts with the problems people have with all social media, not just tiktok:
- The reason why the social media propaganda is so effective is bc it can target and amplify real grievances - and I want to emphasize real grievances. Example - most cops are not racists thrill killers, but there are plenty of wrongful shootings of black folks + George Floyd, and russian trolls can amplify that easily to create dissent. Same with the Bin Laden letter - turns out that US policy in the middle east has been more harmful than good [1], and US government is freaking out, not bc their kids are turning into jihadists, its bc the government propaganda is now transparent and the kids are pissed.
- If we banned tiktok (or any other social media company) someone will make another in its place. The tech and business model are no longer novel. Instagram's V1 was on the app store in 2 months. Banning or regulating social media (especially the way Nikki Haley wants, with removing anonymity) will not solve anything long term.
- So what is the solution long term? Let's start with not doing more harm than good in the world. Second, there aren't any institutions that are going to save the day. Both political parties are corrupt to the core, and function for their donors, not their constituents (internalize that, and the world will start to make more sense). Therefore, the memetic fight for the people you love will start and end at home and not on X, facebook, tiktok - that's all I'll say about that.
[1] If you really want to go down the Bin Laden rabbit hole, watch the 1997 Peter Bergen interview. He basically gives 3 reasons as to why he turned on the US (after being an ally, btw): (1) US support of Israel at the expense of Palestinians, (2) US support of the Saudi family and their corruption, (3) the presence of US military in Arab countries. Funny, none of those reason have anything to do with "hating freedom" and has everything to do with US foreign policy in the middle east.
This is an extremely cogent take on the state of things. Oct 7th was effectively a shattering of the old world view of a US superpower, MSM lead narrative, DNC/GOP duopoly of thought and politics... There are still many people that hold that world view, but there are now many who don't and won't ever again.
> If we banned tiktok (or any other social media company) someone will make another in its place.
That's the point, make another in its place, but make one that isn't affiliated with a hostile foreign government. There are enough resources in the USA to have a clone of it
An interesting question in general, not just for children: Is it desirable at all to see videos of graphic violence, even if they are accurate? Does this improve anyone's judgement?
There definitely has been a level of war voyeurism on social media for the past several conflicts.
Gratuitously watching people die, I suspect, won’t really change anyone’s vote, or to volunteer, or donate. At least long term, because the violence usually is the attraction, not the conflict. And there will always be a new conflict.
A few key events in history have happened because of, lets say, acute exposure. But chronic exposure, to your point, possibly makes our judgement worse.
War is entirely different when it goes from "Jimmy heard that bombs were dropped on a hospital" to "here is a hospital where bombs are dropped. Here are the people trying to pull family members and the dead out of the rubble. Here is a cat feasting on the remains of a deceased person because there's no food in the area. Here is a man throwing the body parts of his child into a duffel bag so that he can bury them according to his religious customs."
War is a neat little 3 letter word. The brutality that war inflict should be mandatory viewing so that we know what engaging them costs regular people.
I have absolutely no scientific basis for this, so take my take with a giant grain of salt, but I would be afraid it desensitizes people to violence or just traumatizes them, especially if they're kids. There's a reason you don't show the new Evil Dead movie with a zombie using a cheese grates people's eyes to children.
People, that means the kids parents, are not voting for horrific zombie enabling politicians, but it’s in their hands to stop supporting the war-hawks.
It can be something relevant to seek out but wouldn't use the word desirable at all.
It may improve judgement but hopefully serves better to improve humility and gratitude.
That’s a pretty reasonable position for you to take concerning your own children, but you should consider that you don’t get to tell me how to raise mine.
Showing videos of real events that actually happened is a view of reality? Your view of reality - I hope would be about whether those things that happened are justified or not. Not whether or not they happened.
His view of reality meaning “the videos he’d like my child to see.” First, they represent his viewpoint, not necessarily one that is healthy for my child. Second, my limited understanding is that many videos in the internet are misleading at best.
Look im not advocating for showing children videos of the atrocities of war before theyre ready to see that kind of horror but those videos dont represent any one view point. A video of an atrocity is a video of an atrocity no matter your "view of reality" and discriminating between propaganda using footage of atrocities and the footage itself is an important skill that it seems like a lot of people in our society dont have.
Well I suppose we can both agree that a picture of a civilian suffering horribly in one place and a picture of the exact same thing happening in another place might come semantically coupled with some viewpoint? Turning over my kids media curation to TikTok seems objectionable to me. Your mileage may vary of course. I’m glad my parents didn’t need to think about stuff like this.
I honestly really dont think reality is coupled in any way with any one given viewpoint. Reality is reality. People suffering are people suffering no matter where. If the view of reality you want your child to have, somehow doesnt agree with the actual physical truth of war and suffering then then I have to say thats pretty messed up.
TikTok is definitely not a great teacher for anything. IT should be a parents/family/communities job to walk children through the very real atrocities committed by our fellow human beings around the world
I am so glad my parents thought about stuff like this and gave me the tools to think critically and empathetically about the suffering of "others".
If you havent seen it, you should watch Grave of the Fireflies. IMO you should show it to your children. Everyone should see it. War is horrible.
You're right, of course; reality is coupled with _all the viewpoints_, not just one. I think you're interpreting my philosophy as "kids shouldn't see videos I don't like." My philosophy is "kids should not see only videos that some company wants them to see."
Reductio ad absurdum, if you watched video of one side of an argument a thousand times and never got to hear the other side of the argument, I think you'd have a pretty messed up understanding of the argument and it would be the fault of 1) the jerk who made the algorithm, 2) the people who gamed it, or 3) you, for being an inattentive parent.
I'm not saying you should keep kids from facts you don't like. Although even I get lazy with language, I deeply believe that they're not our kids; we're their parents. But showing a kid a video of an atrocity a thousand times _without_ the context that there was an atrocity before that, and an atrocity before that, and that's not a great way to conduct a civilization is a terrible idea. I get it that you disagree with me and that's cool.
I just believe that there is something to curation (e.g., college > TikTok), and that the combination of dOiNg YoUr OwN rEsEaRcH and busted algorithms leave a lot of people lacking.
I've got a couple of thoughts with the problems people have with all social media, not just tiktok:
- The reason why the social media propaganda is so effective is bc it can target and amplify real grievances - and I want to emphasize real grievances. Example - most cops are not racists thrill killers, but there are plenty of wrongful shootings of black folks + George Floyd, and russian trolls can amplify that easily to create dissent. Same with the Bin Laden letter - turns out that US policy in the middle east has been more harmful than good [1], and US government is freaking out, not bc their kids are turning into jihadists, its bc the government propaganda is now transparent and the kids are pissed.
- If we banned tiktok (or any other social media company) someone will make another in its place. The tech and business model are no longer novel. Instagram's V1 was on the app store in 2 months. Banning or regulating social media (especially the way Nikki Haley wants, with removing anonymity) will not solve anything long term.
- So what is the solution long term? Let's start with not doing more harm than good in the world. Second, there aren't any institutions that are going to save the day. Both political parties are corrupt to the core, and function for their donors, not their constituents (internalize that, and the world will start to make more sense). Therefore, the memetic fight for the people you love will start and end at home and not on X, facebook, tiktok - that's all I'll say about that.
[1] If you really want to go down the Bin Laden rabbit hole, watch the 1997 Peter Bergen interview. He basically gives 3 reasons as to why he turned on the US (after being an ally, btw): (1) US support of Israel at the expense of Palestinians, (2) US support of the Saudi family and their corruption, (3) the presence of US military in Arab countries. Funny, none of those reason have anything to do with "hating freedom" and has everything to do with US foreign policy in the middle east.