I definitely agree, I can count with my hands how often I do transaction with ebanking, payment app (similar to google pay), and friends. I dislike the idea that people can track where, how much, and how often my money flow. so I resist the temptation of using that kind of stuff.
This feels like it's just throwing money away though. Like, just an example - Banana Republic will give you a CC for 20% off purchases + 200 dollars off of purchases. There's no fees. So as long as you always pay the minimum, or don't spend on it, you just made 200 bucks + 20% back on anything you've spent.
The "cost" is that American Express knows that I'm buying certain items. I'm ok with that... I find it kinda weird that anyone wouldn't be - is it supposed to be a secret that I wear pants?
I get wanting to avoid using a CC for something sensitive, but what's the issue with putting groceries and clothing on a CC that pays you back? It can easily be thousands of dollars back to you.
I think the bigger thing that’s overlooked is that nearly every item today is priced assuming the 3% fee from credit cards.
So by not using a credit card, you’re not getting the 3% cash back (or rewards equivalent) and therefore paying more.
There are a handful of places that offer a discount if you pay with cash (or rather a fee if you pay with a card) in order to make these fees clear to the buyer, but it’s becoming rare. Usually gov websites like DMV or mom/pop shops.
The cost to handle cash is about 3%. People forget how much is lost to cash because it is invisible. However with cash the clerk counts it twice, then the manager counts it twice - someone will mess up so count it again. Then there us theft.
The problem is that your purchases in aggregate are used to profile you and decide how you should be treated as a customer. Companies decide whether to reject your returns, or to offer you deals on products, based on consumer scoring [1]. Even the background check for my current job involved accessing my consumer score. I don't know if this is in fact done, but I can imagine that an employer could use information reported about your spending to determine what salary they think you would accept. In any case, I don't really want to have to think about this. I don't need to worry about abuse of data that I don't give out in the first place.
Also, apart from your personal self-interest, every dollar you spend in cash is a vote for it to continue being accepted. This is important because there's a minority of people who are excluded from the financial system and depend on cash. For example: undocumented immigrants, sex workers, tax protesters, victims of identity theft, protesters who have had their bank accounts frozen [2], and people who, for inscrutable business reasons, are deemed too high-risk to have bank accounts [3]. If those were the only people who used cash, companies would probably not care to accept it anymore. But the more people continue to use cash on principle, the longer it will remain as an escape hatch for those who need it.
Not having a credit card if you are able to is, objectively, idiotic. Having it doesn't mean you have to use it, but you are leaving thousands of dollars a year on the table if you don't use it.
Debit cards don't have nearly the chargeback protections credit does. They don't have any of the warranty protections. They don't have any of the card-member services. Look at two people, one who just has a wad of cash and a debit card, and one who has that plus 3 or 4 credit cards. They both travel to a different country and get their debit account frozen erroneously. One is in a world of hurt, the other is mildly inconvenienced.
When I had a credit card I couldn't stop using it even pass my limit. Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life.
If you have a credit card and then suddenly made redundant then what? They all good and fun when you have an income but as soon as you loose that, your screwed.
At least with debit it's real time and that if you need that extra in a pinch, setup an overdraft.
Credit cards are form of evil and I'll stand by that.
> Credit cards work when you have self-control and to many who don't it's a wreck of your life.
Yes, and as an adult or a responsible individual it a good trait to have. Learn to use money and other financial means wisely. Take that step and it will make a lot of difference.
Unable to understand this is more evil to yourself than what the CCs do to you.
You can call your CC provider and ask them to reduce your limit to what you can afford to pay at the end of the month. They will hesitate, but most will end up doing that for you.
You can't honestly believe that intentionally overdrawing your bank account and the immediate and ongoing fees associated with that is better than putting essentials like food and gas onto a credit card and making the minimum payment for a few weeks or months until you get another job. It's simple math and in most situations the latter is going to save you money and have the added benefit of letting you eat longer. Imagine thinking a $40 fee every time you make any purchase, along with the constant threat that it will get declined this time, is better than paying a bit of interest. A $2,000 balance held for 30 days results in about $40 in interest, so unless you're buying all the food and gas you need in a single transaction in one month, you're objectively better off using a credit card.
I'm sorry that you're not capable of simply not using a credit card, but that sounds like a problem you should work on. For 99% of adults (and a lot of children, to be honest) they're capable of doing so and credit cards are a way to save money and have better control of your finances (which itself helps you save and make more money).
If my credit account is at zero, I neither own money nor owe money.
If my debit account is at zero, I neither own money nor owe money.
Out of those options, owning money is still more triumph than credit.
I don't need a credit card. It's a false vision that I'm missing out on anything. My expenditure is mine with a debit card and I owe no one anything to purchase the item to which I can afford.
Credit cards are only fine if you can pay off the full amount at each month. But for any items that you have not paid off in full. You owe, your in debt to whoever until you pay off the full amount. If your lose your job and you have no buffer, your screwed. They don't cuddle up and waive your bills because you lost your job. They become vicious demons demanding more because you can't pay off the debt you owe.
> For 99% of adults (and a lot of children, to be honest) they're capable of doing so and credit cards are a way to save money and have better control of your finances (which itself helps you save and make more money).
I'm sorry but that's total bullshit; provide source please if your going to make such claims. Because all I know is that we live in a world full of debt. People are struggling to pay ends meet including their credit card bills.
All those statements are true as far as they go. And sure, you don't need a credit card. (There are some scenarios such as some car rentals, that are going to be difficult with a debit card, but if you don't need those things then you don't.)
> It's a false vision that I'm missing out on anything.
This, however, is not true. You are certainly missing on a number of benefits. Obviously it's a choice to make, but it is not true to state you're not missing on anything.
* Credit cards give you back some of the fees that you're going to pay regardless, so you're losing money by not getting the cash back from a credit card.
* Unused credit limit increases your credit score. If you don't have credit cards your credit score is lower than it could be, which means you lose out on better rates and deals.
* The credit card regulations are more pro-consumer than debit card regulations, so if you ever experience fraud this may become relevant to you. In tech terms, a debit card is an open port to your bank account, a credit card is a firewall between your bank account and charges.
Those are the big ones. There's other smaller but real benefits to some credit cards like extended warranties and misc perks. I wouldn't have a credit card just for these but occasionally they help.
> Credit cards are only fine if you can pay off the full amount at each month.
Sure, exactly the same way how debit cards are only fine if you spend less than you make each month.
> If your lose your job and you have no buffer, your screwed.
If you lose your job and your account balance goes to zero, how are you paying anything with a debit card? You're not. Exactly equally screwed.
> There are some scenarios such as some car rentals, that are going to be difficult with a debit card, but if you don't need those things then you don't.)
Hired a car in Canada just fine on my recent vacation to Canada. A whole trip, on debit. No Credit Card -- from Flights to AirBNB to arriving back home. Maybe back in the 90's, sure undeveloped nations probably; but that's a different scenario entirely.
> * Unused credit limit increases your credit score. If you don't have credit cards your credit score is lower than it could be, which means you lose out on better rates and deals.
No credit card and my score is high up there in the 90%'s. How do I know? I have a mortage where they do take scores in to account highly. If I had debt on my credit card I would too be losing points on my credit score if unpayments.
> * The credit card regulations are more pro-consumer than debit card regulations, so if you ever experience fraud this may become relevant to you. In tech terms, a debit card is an open port to your bank account, a credit card is a firewall between your bank account and charges.
Eh. Agree to Disagree.
> This, however, is not true. You are certainly missing on a number of benefits. Obviously it's a choice to make, but it is not true to state you're not missing on anything.
I still don't see what I'm missing. No one's named anything that is making me rush to get a credit card. $200 spending at Banana Republic? Yeah, no thanks.
It works for some, and for me it doesn't. I see it as an evil device that you need to keep a tight check upon. Telling everyone to get a credit card is bad advice.
It's a method of spending more money than what you really have and one with a both has advantages and disadvantages.
The disadvantages way out more than advantages and as I said, if you can't pay, which is true to say for debit; your still better off on debit because with credit can take what you own regardless. Debit they can not.
> Maybe back in the 90's, sure undeveloped nations probably; but that's a different scenario entirely.
From the Avis website:
Some Avis locations do not accept debit cards at the time of rental for any vehicle including locations in the Northern/Central NJ area, Philadelphia area, as well as other locations across the country.
Now, sure, so don't rent Avis. But it shows these kinds of restrictions exist.
> If I had debt on my credit card I would too be losing points on my credit score if unpayments.
But if you have lots of unused credit on your credit cards if increases your credit score. It's a silly game but it's what it is.
> > The credit card regulations are more pro-consumer than debit card regulations
> Eh. Agree to Disagree.
The regulations are written how they are, it's not a matter of opinion. You can choose not to care which is certainly your choice, but the regulations are what they are.
> I still don't see what I'm missing.
I guess you mean you choose not to care about the things you are missing, like leaving money on the table. Which is totally a choice, but surely you've now seen the benefits you're missing, even if you take the choice to opt out of them.
> Telling everyone to get a credit card is bad advice.
At least in the US, everything is biased towards making credit cards the optimal choice both to make and save money for all the reasons listed in this thread. For just about everyone, the best advice is to use credit cards.
> No one's named anything that is making me rush to get a credit card. $200 spending at Banana Republic? Yeah, no thanks.
It was a random example. Lots of cards will just flat out give you hundreds of dollars. For example, I recall a card that would give $300 dollars to you if you spent some amount (maybe 2,000?) within 6 months. That's a free $300 bucks if you were going to spend that money anyways.
Because if you spend $2000 you don't have you then owe the repayment clause. Which makes the $300 $280 and then even less each month until you pay off the $2000.
No this does not apply to any economic transaction.
With a CC, anything you spend is turned into debt first, and the CC companies often position their products in a way that encourages accumulating more debt than you can realistically pay off.
Actual payment, in the sense that you are being charged for the thing/service you bought, is delayed.
For people who actually have to pay attention to stay on a monthly budget, for example because they are not overly wealthy, this is a danger.
Sure I am ready to admit that money equals debt in the end. But that does not change anything about the difference between immediate spending of money and taking up debt to spend money.
p.s., I don't have any credit card.