Covered is stretching it. Most raw HTML elements look terrible and wouldn't pass muster with pretty much anyone.
IMHO, this is a big miss with browsers. Sites look awful without styling and you have to be pretty good with CSS to even make them look passable. Way easier to reach for a framework with prebuilt components
This anecdote was a "pixel perfect" HTML version of some figma design. I did some CSS tricks to style the `<details>` and was lucky the designer was lazy and never specified the styles of all the dialogs around date/time pickers (they weren't that important anyway).
You can style a lot of these native elements. And where you cannot, I'd argue that's actually good. I've worked with designers who insisted that everything looked and feeled the way they had designed it. But I've also worked with designers who, when showed how the date-picker looked on IOS, OSX and even Gnome, were incredibly happy that finally there was design that just followed what the users were used to.
Point being: it will vary. But I'm certain we need all these JS UI-frameworks like MUI far less than we use them. I'm certain plain-old HTML, CSS and a little JS suffices far more often than it's currently used.
>You can style a lot of these native elements. And where you cannot, I'd argue that's actually good. I've worked with designers who insisted that everything looked and feeled the way they had designed it. But I've also worked with designers who, when showed how the date-picker looked on IOS, OSX and even Gnome, were incredibly happy that finally there was design that just followed what the users were used to.
The native browser date picker is very limited. You can't do basic things like disable weekends or select a range making it unsuitable for a wide swath of usecases.
>Point being: it will vary. But I'm certain we need all these JS UI-frameworks like MUI far less than we use them. I'm certain plain-old HTML, CSS and a little JS suffices far more often than it's currently used.
These UI frameworks are just plain-old HTML, CSS, and a little JS. All conveniently built for you to easy build a site that looks pretty good and covers most UX needs.
>This anecdote was a "pixel perfect" HTML version of some figma design. I did some CSS tricks to style the `<details>` and was lucky the designer was lazy and never specified the styles of all the dialogs around date/time pickers (they weren't that important anyway).
If you had used MUI you wouldn't have had to do CSS tricks and if it's using a small fraction of MUI then treeshaking will result in a negligible amount of JS/CSS sent over the wire. So no real performance gain, harder for the next engineer, and no great path forward if the UI needs to be snazzier. It's just worse all around than picking one of the well known frameworks.
> The native browser date picker is very limited. You can't do basic things like disable weekends or select a range making it unsuitable for a wide swath of usecases.
I think that you'd have to reevaluate your users and your use case then. As someone, like berkes, who builds sites almost entirely with HTML / CSS, it's often the case that the developer is RIGHT over what the user needs. After speaking to many clients about the limitations of native HTML elements, I've successfully convinced users to change negative browsing patterns.
Why should I write my own HTML and CSS over using what Bootstrap gives me? I can't think of a single reason to believe that my HTML/CSS will look or perform better than Bootstrap's.
Especially since you can selectively import only the components you use. You're essentially betting that you can like for like implement what Bootstrap gives you better than what they can. Which just seems like a terrible bet regardless of how good that particular developer may be.
I think what that person meant was if browser default styles made semantic HTML look more beautiful, it would probably reduce the incentive for lazy devs to make div soup.
Like imagine if every browser preloaded a dozen attractive classless CSS frameworks for users and/or devs to choose from sort of like CSS Zen Garden.
If all browsers had that, I think we'd get less div soup.
(2) There's relatively few native components and the ones that exist are limited. Like not even what JQueryUI gave you 15 years ago limited. No cards, accordions, avatars, and other sorts of basic building blocks.
(3) No real support for common page layouts. Like a Dashboard or Hero marketing page sorts of things.
IMHO, this is a big miss with browsers. Sites look awful without styling and you have to be pretty good with CSS to even make them look passable. Way easier to reach for a framework with prebuilt components