Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

I'm not even slightly surprised by this, sadly. Cops need to start ticketing people who drive like maniacs. I drive in DC, and every week I almost get hit by some loon going 30+ over the limit who doesn't care that I'm in the lane they're merging into. I've never seen anyone get ticketed. The roads have become something out of Mad Max, just pure developing-world anarchy.



Enforcement is not the solution because it requires constant vigilance. Road design is because you can build the road in a way that brings about the speed/safety envelope you desire, and then it always works correctly whether anyone is monitoring it or not.


I honestly think it's a "do both" issue.

We seriously need to radically re-engineer most roads around me, but the police also really need to step up enforcement.

Before 2020 I could count the number of cars with either no plates or expired temp plates on one hand, since 2020 the number of cars with no plates is crazy, and the number of cars with months expired temp tags is just insane. That also tells me those cars don't have insurance, since I don't know of any insurance that will actually cover any claims you have with no valid registration.

https://www.thv11.com/article/traffic/arkansas-has-27000-car...

Even crazier to me, it looks like California is going to exact opposite direction and making it something you can't be pulled over for.

https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB50/id/2813949


Why do you need to get pulled over for this? In Europe you will just get a letter with your fine.


What? Without pulling you over, how would they know who you are in order to mail you a fine? The point of the plate is to identify the car, after all. Otherwise, you're just an anonymous moving 2-ton hunk of metal.


If something is wrong with the car, the owner of the car gets the fine. The owner of the car is on file.

If somebody uses the car on the owner's behalf and the fine is tied to the driver the fine must be forwarded by the owner to this person.


And since the issue we're discussing is missing a license plate, how do you propose identifying the owner of the car, in order to fine them, without pulling the car over?


Although I agree in general, enforcement is a reasonable band-aid to save lives while waiting for the entire road system to be re-engineered.

The engineering explanation fails to account for the major change from pre- to post- 2020. The road design didn’t change, but clearly driving behavior did. Strong Towns says it’s because roads are less congested now, but I’ve seen plenty of aggressive, reckless driving regardless of congestion level (it seems some people are frustrated by it and act out).


It's always amazing to me how on this engineering-heavy forum, so many users fail to recognize the benefit some simple engineering can deliver.


Well because the roads are what they are, and "reengineering" them to be something else would take years, would be disruptive, and cost millions. So at best you'll get change when the road needs to be rebuilt anyway, because it's worn out.


Not really.

You can make a new protected bike lane by just throwing a bunch of jersey barriers on the side of a road. It costs (in relative transportation cost terms) almost nothing.

These sort of things would instantly make the roads dramatically safer.

The only reason this isn't done isn't due to cost, but due to political opposition to having any amount of road space removed from exclusive car use.


Roads are re-done constantly. I'm certain you passed a construction site in the last week of driving around - and I am certain without knowing your situation or where you live. Cities and communities have massive budgets to just maintain infrastructure.

Each such moment is one where small incremental improvements can be implemented. When a road from 2009 is re-done in 2024, govts can easily enforce that it must adhere to the 2020 guidelines. Each time a line is re-painted, it can be re-painted to increase safety. Each time a curb or bollard is fixed, it can be fixed to protect pedestrians just a bit better. etc.

Yes, it takes ages. But infrastructure is never finished it's a constant evolution of small steps. It's trivial and cheap (as in: free) to make those steps in the direction of more safety. All that is needed is a will do to so...


how is setting up a few cameras and issuing serious tickets to idiots not an engineering solution?

obviously it's not a long-term one, as the only real one is to offer effective alternative to all this constant mandatory carmageddon by having walkable/bikeable cities, blablabla.


We need automatic enforcement via speed cameras and such, but whenever these are brought in, the car lobby moans about how it's a "cash grab" and not about saving people's lives.


Reckless drivers will do their thing regardless of road design.


Except they cant kill as effectivly whit a good road design..


> Cops need to start ticketing people who drive like maniacs.

Not just this, but people who continue to drive like maniacs need their licenses and cars taken away. Driving is a privilege.


The merging and the lane etiquette are the two biggest for me, though I do a lot more driving now than a few years ago. People going below the speed limit in the leftmost lanes regularly back up the freeway since no one can pass. Also is way more dangerous since some weave in the middle lanes (or right) to make the pass.


Yeah that is a weird one because no one is going to get ticketed for going the speed limit or 5 over in the passing/leftmost lane and technically they are doing nothing wrong. It just makes driving more difficult for everyone else.

The rightmost lane is somewhat similar. You really shouldnt travel in it. It's for getting on and off the road. If you are in it you're making it harder for other to merge on/off the road. But again you're not going to get a ticket for pulling into that right lane and staying as long as you'd like.

Some people are actually not even aware of these, "rules". I had a friend who at 25 still drove in the right lane all the time and would get mad when people were always slowing down to get off the highway.

How do we pass on this knowledge that, while fairly important, is not actually law?


It's funny how "going the speed limit or 5 over in the leftmost lane" and "actually using the rightmost lane" are exactly the things I wish more people were doing in this country in Europe.


By rightmost lane, do you mean the on/offramp? Otherwise, it's legally required in much the country to stay in the right lane except when passing.


I meant 3 lane highways.


> The rightmost lane is somewhat similar. You really shouldnt travel in it. It's for getting on and off the road. If you are in it you're making it harder for other to merge on/off the road. But again you're not going to get a ticket for pulling into that right lane and staying as long as you'd like.

I'm curious as to where this is the law. It was not in the state where I learned to drive.


It isnt law anywhere. That is my point. If you're traveling in the rightmost land on a three lane highway you are making it difficult for others to get on and off. The middle lane is where you should be.


I drive the speed limit. If I did that in the middle lane, people would be passing me on both sides. The right lane is for slower traffic. Lanes to the left are for passing. Merging is the responsibility of the drivers merging.


> pure developing-world anarchy

The developing world (generalizing hugely) can be better in some ways. Yes, the traffic isn't as regimented. But in many places, lots of people are on mopeds and scooters, and a shared sense that everyone is a vulnerable meat-bag persists. Plus there are forms of politeness, like chirping the horn to warn people -- "heads up on your left".

The US, by contrast, is full of SUV and pickup drivers who feel invulnerable, and I don't see the same nods at civility.

On the whole, though, the US' more regimented traffic culture is still safer, I have to admit.


Speed Cameras are a lot cheaper than cops, they don't get killed and they don't need a pension. They should do gofundmes for installing speed cameras in your hood, I'd fork some money.


The efficacy of speed cameras depends on the socioeconomics of the area.

The "car culture" lunatic drivers I've met in the Baltimore / DC area just make a hobby of fighting tickets. They have lawyers they regularly work with and somehow always make it out with their license intact.


I mean, you have a photo of them timestamped, there should be no recourse in those cases?


The point I was trying to make is that, after a threshold is reached, one would reasonably assume that these individuals would have their licenses revoked or, at least, be forced to drive in an automobile factory-locked to not be able to travel faster than e.g., 70mph.

The lawyers involved don't stop these individuals from having to pay fines. They can afford the fines and the lawyers.

The lawyers are there to keep the licenses intact. "But Mr. X needs his license in order to get to work at his important job for Corporation Y!"

Financial deterrents don't work well in places with high median incomes like Maryland.


Finland fines drivers according to their income: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-busine...

(Still disappointing that he was only banned from driving for 10 days, even though it was a third offence.)


DC already has an enormous police:population ratio. If more policing were the answer, surely DC would be on the forefront of using police to stop traffic violations.

Police cannot effectively solve this issue. This requires engineering. DC's super wide, straight streets tell drivers "its safe to go really fast here, you have a ton of space". That's where the problem starts, and thats where the solution has to start.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2025 batch! Applications are open till Aug 4

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: