It's long (36 hours, broken up into ~45min lectures), but very engaging and accessible. He goes through the entire history of Western music from Pythagoras through the 20th century. He covers everything from (very basic) music theory to how trends in society and technology influenced the music that was produced in each period.
After listening to the whole thing, it gave me a much more fully formed mental model of how different eras, composers, and styles relate to each other.
And from there it's become much easier to dig in and appreciate different areas of the repertoire, rather than idly trying to absorb disparate pieces that would come up on radio/streaming.
I think this is the last thing people need. Do you really expect me to listen to 36 hours of lectures before I am able to appreciate art music? Listen to the music! Then, if you hear something that clicks with you, and you want to learn more about it, do. You don't have to understand the history, theory, and technology of music to appreciate it.
An interest in learning about the music follows a love for the music.
I don’t think the parent was suggesting that you need to listen to 36 hours of lectures before listening to classical music. Just that for people who have any interest this could further enhance your appreciation. Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me.
I'm not a fan of classical music's cultural self understanding myself - although I do like a lot of classical music. So I do understand where you're coming from.
However, we can't entirely divorce music from its context. If you only listen to music you like without ever asking what it is, who made it, and what they were trying to do with it, you're going to miss out on a lot of things you easily could have liked.
We shouldn't treat music as if it was just sound waves for producing feelings. I think music is communication, people trying to say things, things that maybe aren't so easy to fully say in words. And as with any communication, context matters, and language matters. Understanding non-verbal messages from hundreds of years ago is worth a little effort, I think.
I think we're in agreement on this. It's true that the best classical music has great depths to be plumbed, and some of it requires an understanding of the techniques and intentions of the composers, but there's still plenty that can be taken in by an uneducated listener. My point was that until that uneducated listener gets a bit hooked on it, telling them that they can't possibly appreciate it until they've engaged in serious study is going to sound like off-putting elitist claptrap, and put them off completely. (Which was probably not what you were saying, but it was about my turn to fail at nuance in online conversations.)
I wish I could tolerate him. The content is great, but I find his constant tone of “oh how enlightened and civilized we are because we listen to the right music” thing beyond irritating.
That makes me think of the "light music" which was popular in the 20th century, especially in the US. It was very much music for and by the upper classes, but supposed to be tongue in cheek and charming, not to take itself too seriously. The patrons of orchestral music increasingly weren't too keen on the "serious" classical music of the time which had the conservatories' stamp of approval (because, well, have you heard it?)
Leroy Anderson was part of that tradition. I'd say so were comedians like Victor Borge and Anna Russell.
I LOVE that audiobook/course. I enjoyed it way more than I thought I would.
For anyone on the fence, the narrator/instructor is funny and makes you want to listen to more of it. They walk you through history of music and play songs explaining how the song came about. As an adult that loves music, it’s easy to enjoy it because it’s a very informal format but you learn interesting things the whole time.
I enjoyed it, it goes into quite a bit of music theory and many different musical styles, with a lot of listening exercises.
As a sibling comment said, of course you don't need this to enjoy music, but I did feel like it deepened the experience in some way (and maybe made it a more analytical experience simultaneously - which may or may not be what you want).
I'm listening to this now and love it. The best part is that he puts clips of various types of music throughout (European) history, so you get to listen to them all and compare.
I'm a jazz musician. Like Gioia said, if it gets any worse than classical, it becomes jazz. But things to seem to have changed since the start of the pandemic. Maybe having everything turned upside down has caused some shifts in listening tastes, and audience demographics. Attendance is good at my jazz performances. A local chamber music ensemble sells out all of its performances.
Some hypotheses: Volume levels. (Mostly) lack of lyrics makes it more conducive to serving as background music, perhaps for working from home. The people who attend my jazz gigs are too young to have grown up during the jazz era.
Maybe it's a blip, but if so, it's a welcome blip.
It could also just be the emergence of algorithmically curated playlists simply makes it easier to start playing a mood-appropriate playlist of classical songs.
When I was in school I used to play a lot of orchestral movie soundtracks while working because it was no lyrics and usually somewhat energetic. The main reason I didn’t go with classical was just because I didn’t know any of it well enough to make a playlist for myself. It was much easier to just pick the Gladiator soundtrack and go. But now I can pick “Classical Focus” and get the same.
I suspect many people found something in one of those "mood lists" they really liked, and decided to learn more about it.
Although I personally don't use recommended music as background music, I know that has happened for me for other algorithmical recommendations.
A lot of music that gets stereotyped as background mood music has a lot more depth to it than people realize (who would have thought George Winston was such a weird rabbit hole?)
> A lot of music that gets stereotyped as background mood music has a lot more depth to it than people realize (who would have thought George Winston was such a weird rabbit hole?)
I actually like that about it. Because it actually lets me distract myself by just stopping and listening rather than going down internet rabbit holes.
Another possibility: some people only recently started going to live shows again after the pandemic? For me it was listening to music mostly on YouTube and getting a recommendation I liked. [1]
It seems pop/rock music hasn't really changed much in the last 10-20 years, but I'm an old fuddy duddy so maybe it has. If it's the same manufactured stuff as it's been for a while, maybe it's pushback on that.
Stylistically, pop has changed significantly even in the past 10 years. Going back 20, the differences are even more striking. Of course, chart-topping pop songs are mostly very manufactured, but that's been true for 100 years.
Rock is no longer a "mainstream" genre, in the sense that rock acts generally don't top the charts or occupy a large space in the zeitgeist (hip hop has replaced rock in this area). But I think this has been healthy for rock; the genre is now more fractured, and as a result, more varied and experimental. (Don't @ me metalheads. I love metal too but it is not a mainstream genre)
Sorry if that got a bit rambly -- just wanted to point out that there is tons of evolution in contemporary music. It can be harder to see that, though, since music streaming has taken a big chunk out of the music monoculture. That means finding interesting music is more accessible, but requires individual effort to seek out (and the sheer quantity can be overwhelming).
There has been a lot of innovation in the metal scene. (Though structurally, metal is supposedly the closest genre to classical music, and I find myself listening to more jazz and classical, now that I found a bunch of contemporary metal bands that I like.)
Here is an eclectic list of example metal bands from the last decade:
You’re an old fuddy duddy. There’s a lot of interesting stuff going on. But I think the hyper pop segment led by 100 gecs is the most interesting of it all if you want to take a look at what the kids are doing.
I'm actually quite surprised at the low popularity of jazz. I have found jazz to be one of the few genres that is pretty much always welcomed. Don't know what to play for your guests? Put on some jazz!
I also know a few jazz cafes in my city and personally I've been listening to the genre since my late teens, so I never thought it was this unpopular.
Classical music on the other hand I've always found tricky to enjoy. There are a few pieces I really like and in general I can tolerate it as background music, but it's not something that you easily groove to. Classical music venues are also a bit high brow, so not something you'd pop into easily.
It could be that the stats cover mostly recorded music and radio / online play, whereas jazz has tailored itself to serve live performance. And for playing background music, you don't need to buy more albums than you've got. Jazz players can fit into much smaller venues and lower their volume levels. They can adapt their playing, on the spot, to suit the audience.
Classical could lower its brow and increase its popularity in a live setting. From what I've read, the highbrow thing isn't historically justified anyway, and the musicians only tolerate the formality because it's expected.
Just tried to buy some jazz tickets in my town. Everything was sold out lol. It was a small show, but still. I think live music is just getting a lot more popular post pandemic as someone else wrote.
I wonder if Pixar's "Soul" had anything to do with it? It was a popular 2020 movie and the protagonist was a jazz musician and it included quite a bit of jazz music.
What was released 12 months ago? Elden Ring. Your kid probably listens to more classical than you. Classical music in gaming is as present in games as it was in movies before every movie started using popular music as soundtrack and lazy narrative.
what music in Elden Ring would be considered classical?
There is a lot of orchestral stuff in general -- but if that's the only criteria for 'classical' music (i'm not of the opinion that it is) then nearly every major game released the past twenty years is jam-packed with classical music..
not to say I didn't enjoy the OST. I love nearly every From Software OST (especially the flamenco inspired Armored Core tracks.); I just feel like calling it 'classical' is a stretch.
I know I like "classical" music, but I dont know what. The problem is getting to know it. The barrier to entry is so large.
Imagine if someone said "I like pop music" if they're 80, they'd be talking about bubble gum pop from the 50s, in their 70s ABBA and disco, in their 50s Madonna and Oasis, etc.
I like(d) post WW2 music but I dislike Reggae, death metal, but Im a big Pink Floyd and NWA fan.
Now consoder "classical" music spans centuries, arguably a millennium if we include Gregorian chant. The space is huge and all my mom's classical radio ever seemed to play growing up was some chamber string quartet by Bach.
Classical radio has changed. For one thing, you can get a lot of the stations via streaming, anywhere. If your local station is monotonous, try some other. I like WFMT out of Chicago.
And radio is a good way to get exposed to a lot of stuff without having to study anything.
If you live near a college, check out the faculty recitals, or the advanced students. They will often try things that you won't hear anywhere else, and the live atmosphere is its own thing. Often for free.
Agreed! I always thought I didn't like Brahms, although I don't have any idea where I picked up that notion; I must have been confusing him with someone else. I started listening to Classical King FM, and now and then I'd just be blown away by some piece that sounded like... I don't know, sheer mathematical perfection. Each time I said "I wonder who that is?", it turned out to be Brahms. Now I'm a fan.
I watched the moderately controversial Buñuel movie “Tierra Sin Pan” which uses Brahms’ Symphony No. 4 as the soundtrack and honestly fell in love with the music.
That's a pretty great station, as long as you aren't listening around 4 AM (5 AM during daylight savings time). 4 AM they make me want to scream with frustration.
4 AM is when their daily programming starts. The daily program usually doesn't run exactly 24 hours, so there is usually a gap between the end of one day's programming and the start of the next day's. The shortest gap I've seen was about 30 seconds and the longest was several minutes.
What they do during that gap is play lute or guitar music, usually solo but sometimes part of a small group. For example this morning they played Fernando Sor's Edude in A, OP. 31/19 with guitarist Norbert Kraft.
They seem to choose from all through the range of lute and classical guitar music from the Renaissance through at least the 20th century, and whoever is choosing is doing a great job. A majority of the time I've been awake for their gap music I've enjoyed the piece enough to want to find the sheet music and learn it myself (I dabble in classical guitar).
There are two problems.
1. The gap music does not show up on their playlist [1]. It does show up on the now playing display at the top of the playlist page. So if I'm barely awake in bed I've got to make myself wake up enough to get to a web browser to catch the now playing display.
2. At precisely 4 AM they start the next day's programming, regardless of whether the gap piece that was playing has actually finished.
I thought of having a cron job grab the playlist page with curl, but the now playing data is not part of the page source. It's added by JavaScript.
I suppose I could run something that uses an actual browser and then looks at the DOM to see what the JavaScript puts there.
I just gave that a try and this works on Mac, assuming you have an open Safari window for it to use. It's not pretty, especially that while loop in load_page(). It would be better to do the waiting for page load loop in the shell script.
#!/bin/sh
FILE=${1:-""}
osascript -l JavaScript <<HERE
var app = Application('Safari');
app.includeStandardAdditions = true;
function load_page()
{
let ct = app.windows[0].currentTab;
app.doJavaScript("document.title = 'not ready'", {in: ct});
app.windows[0].currentTab.url = 'https://www.king.org/music-schedule/';
let status = get_status();
while (status != 'complete:Music Playlist | Classical KING FM 98.1') {
status = get_status();
}
}
function get_status()
{
let ct = app.windows[0].currentTab;
return app.doJavaScript("document.readyState + ':' + document.title", {in: ct});
}
function now_playing(file_name)
{
let ct = app.windows[0].currentTab;
let playing = app.doJavaScript("document.getElementsByClassName('player-content')[0].innerText", {in: ct});
console.log(playing);
if (file_name != '') {
let path = Path(file_name)
let s = $.NSString.alloc.initWithUTF8String(playing)
s.writeToFileAtomicallyEncodingError(file_name, true, $.NSUTF8StringEncoding, null)
}
}
load_page();
now_playing("$FILE")
HERE
This could also be done using Apple Shortcuts. I'll have to think about that. A "What's Playing on KING" Shortcut could be useful. Being able to just call out "Hey Siri, what's playing on KING" would be quite convenient.
Oh wait...that would actually probably not work. When I call out "Hey Siri" it is usually my iPhone or iPad that responds, and the Shortcuts action for running JavaScript on a Safari page only works on mobile Safari if the Shortcut is invoked from the share sheet for that page. The shortcut would only work right when invoked on Mac.
Ahaha, I appreciate your passion for early-morning classical guitar! Fortunately, that's a problem I've never been enough of either an early bird or night owl to notice, even on some nights when I've stayed up working very late.
Arthur Rubenstein's Chopin, particularly the nocturnes. This is soulful Chopin before it was played as a sport.
Glen Gould's interpretation of Bach's Goldberg Variations.
Nigel Kennedy's Vivaldi's Four Seasons - and then Max Richter's recomposition, it's really worth it.
Mozart's Requiem - any performance. it's huge. Same with Handel's Coronation Anthem: Zadok the Priest.
Personally, I put a CD of Alan Mearns' Bach (Sei Solo Works) in my car player about year ago and haven't ejected it since, but guitar and Bach are one of my vices.
If you are interested in what's happened since, check out the "Not Quite Classical" spotify playlist as well. It's all new, but you can hear the influences and then track down the roots.
Even funnier because there was an actual classical period, but most of what is called classical isn’t from that period.
Beethoven is basically the dividing line between line between the classical and the Romantic period that followed it.
Bach and Vivaldi were from the earlier Baroque period.
Mozart and Haydn were from the classical.
The bulk of what most people listen to is the romantic period, which runs from roughly around Beethoven’s 3rd to around 1900. That gets you Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Brahms, Berlioz, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius, Rachmanoff, Nielsen, Bruckner, Mahler.
I like classical music. I like listening to the music of people who lived hundreds of years ago. I try to understand what they were trying to say. I try to connect with them on a human level across the centuries, to their joys and sorrows.
But what's even greater, is living traditions. Which carry much of that history, but are very much alive themselves, and not operating on someone's official approval for the "right" way to do it.
And bluegrass, and the wider style of American music which I like to call "Prairie Home Companion Fusion" (I never listened to that old radio show, but I found out a ton of music I love was connected to it) - it totally is one of those wonderful, living traditions.
Itzhak Perlman proudly called himself a "fiddler" to reinforce that he's doing the same thing as klezmer musicians. Yo-Yo Ma plays with non-traditional musicians, too. So yeah; violin and cello don't make it "classical."
"I know I like "classical" music, but I dont know what. The problem is getting to know it. The barrier to entry is so large."
Decades ago when I was young the percentage of people listening to classical music was much higher that the 1% shown here. I can't tell you what that percentage was exactly but as an illustration quite a few radio stations that now play pop or rock music were once classical music stations.
Also, when I was at school music was a compulsory subject and we didn't listen to pop or rock music in lesson time but rather classical music. And it wasn't just listening, I still recall us kids having to follow full orchestral musical scores in time with records. One such work that still sticks vividly in my mind is Morning from the Peer Gynt Suite by Edvard Grieg: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x463zoWpiVI. This score was chosen for us kids because it's comparatively easy to follow.
What that amounts to is that we had much more exposure to classical music at a very early age and thus we had become familiar with it even though pop and rock were also completing for our attention. Moreover, we were deliberately exposed to the 'pops' from the classical repertoire at that young age specifically because these works were much easier for young minds to assimilate. For example, Mozart's Eine kleine Nachtmusik, Ravel's Boléro,
Dvořák's Humoresques, Rossini's
William Tell Overture (aka the Lone Ranger theme music)—this was another score I recall following at school.
That classical music cultural background has now essentially all but died so it's little wonder that the classics are left to the 1% or so of Diehards like me.
The trouble is that the percentage of the population who has the potential to like classical music hasn't changed but rather, unfortunately, it's the opportunity to be exposed to it at an influential age that has.
One way to start might be to break it down, as you have with pop, into periods. Start at say 1780, late Mozart, to 1900 or so (six 20 year periods). Listen widely - in a good collection for example - to several famous composers whose popular works fell within each period. (Less famous composers from the same period will sound similar.) Decide which period you like best, and mine that more thoroughly. (Quieter:piano works, quartets, vocals. Louder, more dynamic:orchestral.)
For example, if you like stuff around 1800, then it's Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven. (Largely German) On the other end are Dvorak, Ravel, Debussy, Grieg.
As you listen you might find one or two conductors whose style you like. Some are strong in one period in particular. See where they lead you!
Good starting points is Beethoven and Bach. Yo-Yo Ma's Bach Cello suites are pretty amazing. I'm not a huge listener, but I can appreciate it as an amateur.
If you really want something different, check out bluegrass.
I can't stand anymore almost all contemporary (circa >2005) pop, rap and R&B music, it's all more of same. Lyrics are 99% of the time ridiculous, autotune is everywhere, the show matters much more than music.
I recently started to listen Ella Fitzgerald, her voice, her talent... Or listen to something simple like Vivaldi's Four seasons, I could listen it forever.
I am the same way, but there are some very niche genres that still work well for me.
You will probably find a common theme across all of them - lack of vocals. Instrumental anything is much easier to consume than when someone decides to put some horrible vocal track over it.
The exception to the vocal thing is if it's in a different language. This is why I can still happily enjoy 2023+ k-pop and Rammstein releases.
English language to a tune is not something I've ever really been a fan of. Even in the classical sense - most of this is not in a language I can understand.
Shout out to TwoSet for being at the forefront of making classical music mainstream. Watching the channel has made me pick up my violin again over the last year, and I've recently attended a few LA Phil events with Lang Lang, Ray Chen, and Hilary Hahn.
A lot of young folks at those LA Phil events.
I wonder if Blackpink's Shut Down was a gateway drug for some of their fans.
Yup I don’t play violin, or even really like the sound of it, but I have probably watched a couple of hours of their videos.
Another YouTuber I watch is Brandon Acker. He specializes in classical guitar and early stringed instruments (lute, theorbo, etc). He’s got a couple viral “can you tell the difference between a $200 and $200,000 guitar” [1] type videos which are fun, some educational “introduction to the theorbo” type videos [2], also also does a lot of early music performances that I really enjoy [3].
They talked me into buying a violin and starting to take lessons a few months ago.
It’s no joke.
I play a bunch of instruments at various levels, and it’s easily the hardest. Fun and rewarding though. Great for finger strength too… my guitar playing has never been better, despite not playing much of right now.
( Guitar, Bass, Piano, Violin, Mandolin, Chromatic and Diatonic Harmonica. I also played trombone for a couple of years in schools, but turns out I’m asthmatic and we don’t make great brass players).
Yeah, it's a physically demanding instrument. It takes months or years to get a good sound out of it. I'm taking lessons but I had played like 7-8 years in school in the past. But you got the ear and music theory to speed you up!
They acquired Primephonic [0], an app and streaming service geared exclusively towards Classical music, a couple years ago. This month, they are launching Apple Music Classical [1], which is basically a separate app and experience from Apple Music that is geared toward listening to classical music, likely built from Primephonic. Classical is included with an Apple Music subscription.
As you note, classical music has a distinctly different metadata structure than popular music, and the typical “Artist - Title - Album” structure in most streaming apps completely fails basic UX for classical music.
[0] - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/08/apple-acquires-classi...
[1] - https://apps.apple.com/us/app/apple-music-classical/id159843...
That doesn't mean they didn't help increase interest in classical music. Ask anyone under 35 who's into classical music if they heard of Two Set. These channels definitely made an impact, especially through TikTok form. Anyone who was 1% classical-curious, TikTok would hook onto them.
I know I've started listening to classical more lately. I feel like my brain needs the calm and the order of classical. The world is crazy right now. It may also have something to do with my age(47).
It's funny though that the people who eschew popular music and say "I prefer classical" listen to the Taylor Swifts Justin Biebers of their eras: Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler, Liszt and Chopin.
Well, they weren't exactly. They were still the music of the upper classes, and arguably the middle classes of a few very wealthy places such as Vienna.
Not that there's anything wrong with that! It's just that there's plenty of folk dancing music, broadside ballads etc. from the same years.
new music hasn't culturally developed but also the values we hold, the ideas we care to express, are not being conveyed in music like once was.
oldies spoke of many issues, spoke on having lastinglove whereas now its far more about flings. Eventually people either will resort to changing their life to compat with the crappy music or turn the lyrics off.
Available on audible:
https://www.audible.com/pd/How-to-Listen-to-and-Understand-G...
It's long (36 hours, broken up into ~45min lectures), but very engaging and accessible. He goes through the entire history of Western music from Pythagoras through the 20th century. He covers everything from (very basic) music theory to how trends in society and technology influenced the music that was produced in each period.
After listening to the whole thing, it gave me a much more fully formed mental model of how different eras, composers, and styles relate to each other.
And from there it's become much easier to dig in and appreciate different areas of the repertoire, rather than idly trying to absorb disparate pieces that would come up on radio/streaming.