Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

The key treaty on this is the Chicago Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Convention_on_Internat...

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/anconf12/Document%20Archive/an...

Appendix 4 - Unmanned free balloons

2.1 An unmanned free balloon shall not be operated without appropriate authorization from the State from which the launch is made.

2.2 An unmanned free balloon, other than a light balloon used exclusively for meteorological purposes and operated in the manner prescribed by the appropriate authority, shall not be operated across the territory of another State without appropriate authorization from the other State concerned.

2.3 The authorization referred to in 2.2 shall be obtained prior to the launching of the balloon if there is reasonable expectation, when planning the operation, that the balloon may drift into airspace over the territory of another State. Such authorization may be obtained for a series of balloon flights or for a particular type of recurring flight, e.g. atmospheric research balloon flights.

2.4 An unmanned free balloon shall be operated in accordance with conditions specified by the State of Registry and the State(s) expected to be overflown.

---

Section 2.2 and 2.3 is applicable here. That they didn't know, and the government didn't know, and this wasn't a exclusively used as a weather balloon... there are possibly some things that the hobbyists did that may not have been completely within the bounds of the treaty.

There are also things like:

FAA guidance - https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html...



> there are possibly some things that the hobbyists did that may not have been completely within the bounds of the treaty

Given the geopolitical moment, I'm inclined to think it might work out for the best if that were so.

Not that today's neocon China hawks are any more in the habit of listening to reason than they were when they were the neocon Iraq hawks of a couple of decades ago, but anything that gives everyone else another reason not to listen to their incessant warmongering is in my view entirely welcome.


I'm not an international lawyer but I'm fairly certain the Chicago convention has nothing to do with states within the US, it has to do with nation states. So the above is totally irrelevant.


It sets down the rules for which civil aviation (including unmanned free balloons) follow. You could argue that "a balloon launched in Illinois and found in Alaska is within the US"... but it transited other countries airspace (there is no way for a balloon from Illinois to get to northern Alaska except the long way around) and should have been following the rules there.

And so, the question that I'll ask - "did the people launching balloon obtain permission to launch from the United States and prior permission for countries that it passed over?"

This isn't exclusively a weather balloon - which has a different carve out for permissions.

But it is an aircraft that traveled internationally and through the airspace of multiple different countries.


The story is about US civilians' balloons, launched domestically, being shot down while over the US (I think).


The civilians know where they are (GPS or other tracking back), but the various government agencies don't.

While this is applicable for balloons with a larger payload (that the size of the balloon was specifically under to be unregulated) ... https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html...

Post the balloon flight on flight progress strips along the planned trajectory and revise routing as tracking/position reports require.

Radar flight follow balloons to the extent that equipment capabilities permit. If radar flight following is not possible, tracking should be attempted by communication with the “chase plane,” telephone contact with the operator, pilot, or ground observation reports.

Provide traffic advisories to all affected aircraft during initial contact specifying the balloon's known or estimated position, direction of movement, and altitude as “unknown” or “reported,” as appropriate.

Unless ATC requires otherwise, operators of unmanned free balloons are required to monitor the course of the balloon and record its position at least every two hours. As required in 14 CFR Section 101.39a, balloon position reports are not forwarded by the operator unless requested by ATC.

    UNMANNED FREE BALLOON OVER (name of location),
    or
    ESTIMATED OVER (name of location), MOVING 
    (direction of movement).
    LAST REPORTED ALTITUDE AT (altitude as reported by the operator or determined from pilot report),
    or
    ALTITUDE UNKNOWN.
---

If this was followed, and someone could say "there's a balloon near this location which is similar to the last reported location of Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade balloon 12345" this probably wouldn't have happened.

As it is, they're getting into the airspace used by airliners at a time when peoples' hackles are raised with unknown balloons.

As it is, this still falls under the Chicago Convention.

> 2.2 An unmanned free balloon, other than a light balloon used exclusively for meteorological purposes and operated in the manner prescribed by the appropriate authority, shall not be operated across the territory of another State without appropriate authorization from the other State concerned.

> 2.3 The authorization referred to in 2.2 shall be obtained prior to the launching of the balloon if there is reasonable expectation, when planning the operation, that the balloon may drift into airspace over the territory of another State. Such authorization may be obtained for a series of balloon flights or for a particular type of recurring flight, e.g. atmospheric research balloon flights.

This is not exclusively a meteorological balloon. It is not getting authorization from the airspace it drifts into. That is not being done prior to a launch and as it travels.


Thanks for explaining!




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: