I get why we tend to focus on business-related outcomes for topics like this, but I wanted to note that there is nothing wrong with Joy + Skill - Need outside of a business context.
I actually believe that seeking this out is a fundamentally great way to make yourself happier in general, which can balance out the apparent -Joy from your job.
It's not going to be possible for everyone all of the time to experience the perfect intersection of these three in a single context; their position and size will fluctuate over time, so it's important to find/create alternate sources to achieve that "ikigai"
I agree, great point that "need" is strictly in the business context.
In fact, "not need" might even be more enjoyable. I play the piano strictly for myself; if I "needed" to do it, it would completely change the activity in a negative way.
It's true I wrote this specifically for finding fulfillment _at work_, but that's a great observation. (Even more specifically, in response to that quoted Hackernews piece, and then my system for dealing with the same thing.)
Article resonates on concepts of Ikigai. But when corporates are driven by profit, not sure how it produces joy. Finding joy is by accident or being in right place at right time. Majority of us are operating in "Command-Execute" model.
Companies don't produce joy, but your own work might. For example, I know many software developers who love writing code, even the code specifically for their job. If you love solving infrastructure puzzles, you might find joy at any at-scale software company (that isn't contrary to your values of course).
You bring up a good point, though, that "joy" isn't just the immediate work at hand, but also the entire context that you're in. I agree with that. Perhaps the argument about work alone, makes sense under the assumption that the larger context is also compatible with your values. If not, perhaps no specific activity will be joyous, and joining a different organization is the only solution?
So perhaps "joy" is still a valid thing to seek, but you're pointing out that it's more complex than just "do I like my current task?"
I tend to think that many people try to over-optimize for joy in their work when doing so is impractical. Context definitely matters. As a founder or early employee you have comparatively a lot more agency in terms of shaping your work environment. At bigger companies you have much less, and you probably don't even understand the context your work matters in. At the end of the day everyone's really working for the board and the shareholders, but in most cases employees can't even tell you who those people even are, let alone what they care about. (Hint, at a sufficiently large public company, it's a good bet that people like managers of pension funds which bought your stock have some very big voices, and barely know what your company's vision is, let alone care, and that's just the nature of the game.)
It's this reality which leads to people inevitably feeling betrayed by a company as it grows - e.g. everyone thinking that "Don't be evil" was a thing Google could and would live up to after becoming successful. But at modern Google scale it is just not a realistic expectation.
There's always another path which is to take a more holistic look at life and say "I may not get a ton of joy from my job, but I source joy from other things that my job enables, so that's OK."
Yes agreed. Joy needs to be pursued, but I believe trying to find joy at work is futile for most and few are lucky. Starting your company with intent of seeking joy might work. But how many start a company though !! I am not against this concept of Ikigai, but I am trying to understand how I can apply on my current situation ( being practical )
This is a great article and glad I read it as I’m at a cross-roads currently. I’ve exited from a startup I founded in 2021 and figuring out what to do next.
One thing I noticed is that I dislike virtual meetings, especially regularly scheduled ones. So need to figure out how to navigate that if I do something new.
> Daniel Pink famously surmised2 that “carrots and sticks” are poor motivators for most people. Worse, they’re demonstrably counter-productive in common real-world scenarios.
Which is why I think peer bonuses are a net negative. As the literature says, extrinsic rewards ruin things
Peer bonuses are not about receiving them! They are about the ability to give them, and seriously show appreciation that way. This is empowering and enjoyable.
Surely this changes depending on the individual giving/receiving? Regardless of intent you have people who would prize both.
I've never worked in a place that had them, but I do know an individual who views it as a source of pride to collect as much as possible from peer bonuses. According to him it's not about the money, it just helps ease impostor syndrome since it's quantifiable and therefore suddenly the only "real" feedback he gets. Since it's quantifiable it renders any soft feedback he gets from his manager worthless in comparison.
Not saying that's common, just saying that's just one of what must be many many interpretations of the incentive structure.
> Trap: Skill + Need - Joy
This is classic burn-out. When you do the work all day, you feel drained and exhausted rather than energized (as you would if it were Flow = Skill + Joy). You do the work, because the company needs it done. You do the work, because you are undeniably great at it. Even though you hate doing it, you’d rather take it on yourself rather than foist it on others, whether because you want to “protect them from the drudgery8,” or because you believe they can’t do as good a job as you can, or because you can’t afford to hire someone. Because you create great results that the company needs, it doesn’t look like a problem—not to you, nor your team. But because you dislike it, you grow to resent it, and eventually you can’t face it, and you’re finished.
Nowadays I find myself exhausted even though I’m doing important and high priority work that the C-suite cares about. That paragraph articulated why I feel so burnt out with it now.
I get why we tend to focus on business-related outcomes for topics like this, but I wanted to note that there is nothing wrong with Joy + Skill - Need outside of a business context.
I actually believe that seeking this out is a fundamentally great way to make yourself happier in general, which can balance out the apparent -Joy from your job.
It's not going to be possible for everyone all of the time to experience the perfect intersection of these three in a single context; their position and size will fluctuate over time, so it's important to find/create alternate sources to achieve that "ikigai"