Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Friendly reminder that he could not have stolen the deposits in the manner he did if this was on-chain and the users self-custodied.

Yes, DEXs exist. Yes, you can self-custody on DEXs.



That’s equivalent to saying if a bank goes insolvent you should’ve had your money in a safe at home.

For crypto yes you can have a hard wallet, but it can still be stolen from you without anyone physically touching your hard wallet.

I don’t and won’t see the appeal for crypto until it has a killer app that people NEED to use for another reason than “I can get rich quick”


> that people NEED

All the depositors have the extremely pressing NEED of not having all their deposits stolen from them.

Blockchains mathematically prevent fraudulent misuse of deposits.

People aren't mad about SBF taking a wrench to their head. They're mad about SBF defrauding them.

Could not have happened on a blockchain.


So the killer app for crypto is....not getting ripped off via crypto?


> Blockchains mathematically prevent the misuse of deposits

Depending on the argument I hear that the ledger is anonymous or not anonymous.


Anonymity is completely separate.

Anonymity has nothing to do with the property that you cannot steal on the blockchain.

How do you think blockchains even work? Read primary sources before vaguely disagreeing.


I assume you’re saying the way they prevent misuse is because the ledger is public and it’s trackable by anyone who wants to look at the ledger.

If I’ve mistaken your argument then please correct me. I’m familiar with blockchain and have contributed to multiple projects in the open source community back when I saw potential and promise in blockchain tech.


Yes, you're mistaken.

If you're the only person with the private key, you're the only person who can move the funds.

It's math. Unless you have a mathematical argument as to how to move funds without the private key, you're ignorant and uninformed.


If you’re depositing into a bank or exchange it’s not like 1 person is controlling that entire entities wallet(s). Deposits have the same risk of being misused in crypto as in fiat.


DEXs exist. What you are talking about has nothing to do with blockchains or self-custody.

Again, read primary sources and learn fundamental concepts before vaguely disagreeing.


Are you suggesting SBF would have physically stolen from millions of different human beings?

How?


No but with these exchanges collapsing I keep seeing the argument that it people kept everything in a soft or hard wallet then everything would be OK. I disagree with that premise for the reasons prior. Also in the case of Luna and many others their coins are effectively worthless.


Totally valid criticism about the coins potentially being worthless.

I just want to stop the ignorant, misinformed takes.

It's so paradoxical that HN is paranoid about the government changing settings on your phone without your permission, and yet HN does not think we should prevent the government or an opaque set of third parties from arbitrarily seizing and freezing your money.


You seem to be under the naive assumption that dexes are safe from what I can only call "Blockchain shenanigans". See:

Exhibit A: https://rekt.news/madmeerkat-finance-rekt/

Exhibit B: https://rekt.news/monox-rekt/

Exhibit C: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2022/11/02/cross-chain-dex-rub...

Or do you want me to find a few more examples before you stop spreading misinformation?


Those all occurred because users could not or did not read the source code and prove to themselves that their funds cannot be stolen.

Why prevent people from using math to prove their assets cannot he stolen?


So am I to assume you have read the entire source code of any cryptocurrency you put money in to prove to yourself there is no "backdoor"? And you argue every user of cryptocurrency should do the same? i.e. "don't put money in X if you have not read and verified the source code of X and committed to reading every code for every future update of X, and also verified that the nodes you are talking to are running the same code X, and in the future will keep verifying that the network is not pulling a sneaky on ya?" In which case, I strongly agree with you. Moreover, with such a great user interface cryptocurrency will surely replace traditional finance any day :)


Never argued blockchains should fully replace traditional finance.

Banks are extremely valuable to me and probably always will be.

Blockchains have certain properties which make them extremely desirable in a specific set of use-cases. That set was greatly exaggerated by ignorance and insanity in the bull market. Still, the true set is nonzero.

Stop being an ideologue. It spreads ignorance.


You did not answer my earlier question, only latched on to a throwaway line at the end. Do you verify code of everything on a Blockchain you interact with, and maintain that everyone who interacts with the Blockchain should verify these "mathematical properties" themselves?


Yes, I do not hold assets in contracts which I have not personally verified.

Yes, I strongly recommend everyone do the same.

If it's a "yield vault" or an "LP pool" then you really truly should read every line of code and understand all the risks, because it is extremely likely that there is some catastrophic exploit, given the current near non-existent scaffolding regarding formal verification of smart contracts.


Great! At least we agree on one count. Now, from what you say, I see only two possible logical conclusions:

1. People only deposit their crypto on LP pools they can read and verify, on chains whose code they can read and verify. Since people with such technical know-how is very limited, there is not much liquidity in the "liquidity pools" and thus the DEXes are virtually unusable.

2. People deposit their money to DEXes without reading and verifying every single smart contracts and Blockchain code. DEXes have sufficient liquidity but the depositors sometimes wake up with all their money gone in the air.

If you are arriving at a third possibility, naturally you are making a different assumption than I made in the above two points. What are the assumptions that leads you there? I would really like to understand.


You make a good point. We need to figure out how to make it easier to use blockchains correctly.

It could be that there is no good answer and blockchains are simply hard to use and we should advise the general public to exercise extreme caution when using them, if at all.


Nobody can steal your FTT tokens either.


Correct.

It's also correct that FTT tokens are worthless.

An argument against the worth of an arbitrary token created on a permissionless blockchain is not an argument against the good, useful, valuable properties of blockchains, such as the fact that you mathematically cannot be stolen from without physical coercion or profound negligence.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: