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[flagged] Will Twitter outlast this lettuce? (lettuce.wtf)
67 points by yellow_lead on Nov 5, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 63 comments


Does someone have a better sense of economics of charging $8/Month ?

At best assuming approximately the 420,000 [see Ref.1] folks currently on twitter will pay $8/Month - which gives about $40 Million in annual revenue.

Will the economics work if the advertisers stay out ?

Also, why charge $8 in the first place if the number is too low ( < $40 Million), given as Mr.Musk puts it, twitter is losing $4 Million a day !

Source : [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/28633/verified-users-on-tw


I think we can't really have a guesstimate without knowing the rest of the story because the rest of the story is about what you get by paying $8.

The blue tick as an ornament definitely doesn't bring 8USD of value but it can bring value as something else and IMHO that value would be much higher if they keep identity verification intact and much less if anyone can buy it.

If it was "account maintenance fee" I suspect brands and politicians would have paid much more than the $8.

If it is going to be anyone who pays gets in, then for example a politician with a few millions of backing can have hundreds of thousands paid accounts to run their campaign. There is already reporting about countries like Russia and Turkey running large scale social media operation which probably cost much more than $8 per account and Turkey's Erdogan already expressed interest in Twitter's new paid blue tick[0] and said it would talk with Musk for localised pricing.

But in this case, the Twitter becomes much less interesting for the regular people and they might reduce or even stop using the service if all they see is paid propaganda.

I would have paid monthly subscription fee just to use the site if the content was spam and bot free but that's not happening. It looks like the best Musk can do is to optimize monetisation up to a point that the site doesn't die, he needs to strike a point where the content is good enough to gather an audience when charging the content creators that want to do something to the audience(sell them something, convince them in something) because the model he seems to be creating is essentially native advertising for monthly fee.

[0] https://onedio.com/haber/erdogan-mavi-tik-ucreti-icin-elon-m...


As far as I understand Twitter had a paid option for $5 before, the change now is that they're raising the price to $8 and more importantly they are coupling this to the blue verified mark. But the reports also indicate that there won't be any verification of identity anymore, which to me sounds like it would entirely defeat the purpose of the thing. If random scammers can just buy blue checkmarks they will very quickly lose their meaning, and why would you pay for them then?


Linking the account to a credit card/debit card should be some sort of a proof or way to track someone as well no.? seems like they just make it more intrinsic, which is good and bad. not sure how I should take it as.

Don't care much about twitter either way.


I think there is more to it.... They will probably require a non-anonymous credit card and if things line up you are verified.

So it is probably +$8/month -75% of the cost of that feature.

"Pull out your credit card and pay" is a nice anti-spam feature and verification is a bank duty anyway. So it is pretty likely that any abuse can be pushed down to the person doing the impersonation.

Plus it is most valuable to brands (even personal brands), so $8/month isn't much.


> "Pull out your credit card and pay" is a nice anti-spam feature and verification is a bank duty anyway

And if you wanted to pivot into also handling payments, you'd now have a payment method to settle with your customer, massively removing onboarding friction into the payment system.


Advertisers now are in "victim of blackmail" position. Think about it, Volkswagen tweet handle being auction off to "anyone" with free reign to post using "Volkswagen" name worldwide. They have reach the Yelp position (even bigger) and more entrenched. There way more celebraties and companies than restaurants. Nearly every westernized governments (and their ministries and agencies) use tweeters to disseminate information.You are looking at easily 1B per month simply from this kind of susbcription. 8 dollar might just be the retail pricing. There is always the premium-enterprise special pricing.


I think he expects a large portion of the other 300m+ accounts to pay $8 too.


Didn't he himself claim a lot of them are bots?


95% of them are bots, that leaves only 15mil accounts.

If they all sign up, they will make an extra $1.4 bil a year, which would certainly help. But they will be getting half as many ads, so if you halve the advertising revenue that is losing $2.5 bil a year - net net a reduction of twitter revenue of $0.9bil


That depends. There might be a premium for advertisers to pay to target the half of ads that blue users can see.


My money's on Musk.

As much as I dislike his methods, I credit him with more intelligence than Liz Truss.


> My money's on Musk.

Same. Worst case scenario for Musk is he gets Tesla to bankroll the takeover with some BS synergies as justification (like he did with Solar City). With fewer engineering resources, I don't expect any major changes to the platform. Advertisers might flee due to the uncertainty (and couldn't care less about Twitter) but as for the user base, they have no credible alternative to Twitter. Users will likely stick around for a while unless Musk pushes a few more footguns.


Musk also isn’t elected.


Neither was truss.


Agree, but... Twitter clearly ain't the sort of business where Elan has done well, and it may be a bad fit for both his personality and public persona. Twitter could outlast the lettuce...but "win" with 0.1x the monthly revenue, or otherwise be headed for "the next MySpace" status.


Agreed. For all his warts, he runs a ton of successful businesses.


More important than matters of intelligence: Musk’s public unpopularity means nothing to his power, whereas it meant everything to Truss’s.


If it's true that he fired developers based off lines of code then I think Liz Truss is smarter.



I must say, nice looking plate. That lettuce is already not looking so hot, though.


Looking better than Twitter, at least.


Elon hate is getting quite delusional.


Elon is getting quite delusional


If only Elon would stop saying and doing silly things


Once you have the audience prime for trolling, you’re going to do so. But the bigger question is why are we so happy to provide him, one of the richest people around, with free entertainment?


It's his style. It's also how he trolls idiots saying delusional/hateful/incorrect things about what he's doing.


That’s a nice excuse. It’s just a prank, bro!


This is clearly a joke


Elon's hate is getting quite delusional.


The greatest threat to an already established project is not an earthquake, but the unperturbed erosion of time that causes it to fall into insignificance. Trying to ignore all this attention given to Twitter, let's see a year from now....


It would actually be funny if this were a realistic lettuce made of plastic


My money's on the Internet moving on.

Twitter, as it exists right now, is done. Whatever emerges from the ashes won't look anything like the original. We may be looking at the birth of Parler 2.0.


In a month everyone will have moved on to the next trendy thing to rage about and nothing will have changed at twitter


Seems like by "in a month" to be true, the next trendy thing would already be known. Mastadon is not it, so what's the migration moving to?


Twitter has been "done" for half a decade now. It just keeps going despite being a cesspool. It was never the trendy or the biggest social network. I don't think it will collapse.

I personally only use twitter to follow things. It is handy. You can follow updates on software or services. You can follow politics, celebrities, friends etc. I don't want to watch people dance or post altered selfies all day long. I also don't want to follow a bunch of rss feeds and shit.

Look at antirez's recent post about linked lists. It cam from people arguing about linked lists on twitter. About freaking linked lists. This is usenet territory here. Won't find that on any other social network.

Only thing that is similar for me is Reddit and it is also a cesspool, also keeps going.


Why do you think this would end up like Parler 2.0?


I thought pretty much the same when I read a bunch of research/innovation teams were completely dismantled.


If the new buyer has a complete different vision, wouldn't it make more sense to hire the right people to build out that vision and have them innovate towards that instead of retaining the old people innovating for the old vision? It's not like the previous team has innovated on much in the last decade of Twitter either.


Because letting a few right leaning voices back to question the lefty loonies who currently run amok on there qualifies as hate speech.


Isn't it a bit early to judge when we haven't seen the new strategy for how to address this issue?


The purchase of twitter for $44b will be known as the most expensive corporate mistake in history. He's aleady chased away most of his advertisers, pissed off both sides of the political spectrum with his selective enforcement of rules, and clearly he's reneged on the whole idea of turning Twitter into a "public square" as theyre still taking down legal free speech. His ship is sinking. fast.


It's too early to judge.


You’re right. He still might realize he can use it to extract personally profitable handouts from ethno-nationalistic autocrats. Through suppression, promotion, and sharing user data. That would be good for him at least.


Okay? are you alright?



Nonsense. For example Yahoo had the opportunity to buy Google for $5 billion in 2002, and 20 years later Google is worth more than a trillion dollars. Or look at another trillion dollar plus company Microsoft--and remember that it was IBM that came out with the IBM PC in 1981--and then IBM totally blew it.


"This thing Elon Musk is doing is insane, it's never going to work" is bound to be true once in a while.

Let's just give this some time, though...


What is the definition of "outlast" in this instance?


The last one to slowly decay into a festering pool of goop, colonized by competing microorganisms seeking to dominate the goop with their own tiny idea of what success looks like, while higher ad-versaries extract sustenance from them and the goop for a short while, until a sticky dead equilibrium is reached.


I suspect outlast will be either twitter suffers some massive temporary outage that shakes confidence in the service as a whole or the venture itself collapses.


Is it massive enough to form a black hole when it collapses or not massive enough so it only goes super novae instead? It's not like it's Facebook size


The dead horse has been beat


The next step is for Elon M. to cleanout the stables at the mic primes


All social media is dead, just like traditional newspapers, and this won't save it/them. Elon nonwithstanding.


This is nonsensical in that the original meaning of the lettuce is totally lost to most. You have to go back to the early 90s to understand the historical context of this whole backstory. Right now this type of thing is totally missing what it actually means.


I guess refreshing to see the masks drop as people turn to actively promoting corporate censorhip. I didn't think it there was this many, but I guess US politics with its cycles of polarization increased those numbers...


> actively promoting corporate censorhip

What does “corporate censorship” mean to you in this context? Genuinly currious.

There is at least two different ways I can interpret your comment and they are basically polar opposites of each other.


I mean the opposite of platform neutrality.


Its also amusing seeing left leaning people announcing their Mastodon in a form of protest, then just continue posting only on Twitter. And soon to start visibly ponying up $8/month to Elon.


This is funny, but comparing Twitter to Liz Truss is a bit silly. Liz Truss didn't have a vested interest to maintain a $44 billion investment. Elon Musk also wasn't elected to his current position as "Chief Twit" or "Twitter Complaint Hotline Operator"...


> Liz Truss didn't have a vested interest to maintain a $44 billion investment.

Liz Truss had vested interests to maintain a $1 trillion investment.


Liz Truss tried to implement a $48 billion tax cut plan that mostly benefited the very rich. She wasn’t elected to her position either (Conservative party insiders chose her).

In a sense the Truss premiership was a risky investment by the British elite that would have given them a massive windfall if it had worked. And Twitter is a risky investment by the American right-wing elite, many of whom put in their money with Musk without doing any due diligence (Ellison, Andreessen etc.)




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