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NSA can refer it to federal police who can use it for parallel construction at home to imprison you if they wish to retaliate against you for something they don’t like.

CCP can’t do that.

Surveillance by police that have jurisdiction over you is more dangerous than those who do not.




> CCP can’t do that.

They can they just don’t need to. They can just disappear you. There’s documented evidence of the Chinese gov torturing, defiling, political dissidents but you’re worried about parallel construction from the NSA.

As a reminder, for parallel construction to work you need to have actually done something illegal, which the NSA then backtracks to build a case against you. For the Chinese gov to throw you into an unmarked van and press you into slave labor all they need is to tell someone to do it.

These aren’t even close to the same.



Aside from the fact that the accuracy of that book has been seriously questioned, your bringing it up doesn't refute what you were replying to. You need to have committed a crime for parallel construction to apply. Yes, there are a lot of laws and a lot of crimes defined in the U.S. Code, and people do get ensnared by laws that they didn't know existed. But that doesn't change the U.S. constitutional guarantee of due process.


Why can’t they? Sure, they can’t just call up the FBI or other US law enforcement agencies and refer the matter.

However, they can absolutely use the threat of disclosure of sensitive information to blackmail or otherwise coerce someone. The threat (real or perceived) many times is worse than the reality.

I’d say they each have the capability to cause harm, but the incentives/motivations/safeguards that might drive (or inhibit) them to do so are drastically different.


Like the FBI did to Martin Luther King Jr?

This is just as much a problem in the US.


It is not "just as much a problem in the US". China's treatment of dissidents is far, far worse than the US's. It's not even close. Every reputable political ranking organization, from Freedom House to The Economist, confirms this.


I think they both extend up to the maximum of torture/murder, so I don’t really see how either is “worse” or “better”.


Are you planning to be equivalent in notoriety/influence as Martin Luther King Jr? If not, the motivation/incentives for domestic law enforcement to target you aren’t really there. It would be a waste of their time and finite resources.

The PRC has a bit different motivations/incentives and theirs are not aligned with a perceived U.S. national security interest.

Whether you and I agree with the US national security apparatus's mission, in my opinion, it is at least more oriented towards safeguarding/promoting the US’ self-interest.

That’s not to say I agree with all of its actions, just trying to explain what I mean when I say there is difference in motivations and incentives.


I mean, the CCP can straight up kidnap me internationally if they want to.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-19/china-operations-to-f...


So can the CIA.


Yes and I’m scared of the CIA too, what’s your point? Your consistent whataboutisms up and down this thread are as hilarious as they are sad.


My point is that domestic surveillance poses more of a potential threat to you than foreign surveillance.


That depends on who you are. And if that’s your point, you should just make that point instead of Reddit-like single sentence whataboutisms.

China just assaulted and kidnapped HK protesters in the UK.


It's not whataboutism when the entire thread started with a comparison. To discuss it further is just... normal. What the hell.


It’s not just here. In every thread on this page that commenter is piping up with single sentence whataboutisms.

“But the CIA” is not “discuss[ing] it further” either. I’d be happy to discuss it properly. But reddit-like pithy stuff like this is not that.

Oh and China just assaulted and kidnapped protesters in the UK. Like, within the last couple of hours.


[flagged]


That’s not the experience of Roger Ver, who was imprisoned in inhumane conditions for speaking negatively about BATFE agents at a conference in the US.

Same for Assange.

Retaliation for protected expression happens all the time in the USA.




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