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But the moment the attacker knows the password is correct, you/the platform would also know the password is compromised assuming they cannot get past 2FA. There is an extremely limited amount of situations that end up with "passed password authentication but failed 2FA" and all the platform needs to tell them apart is a simple "Hmm, were you attempting to login?" email or notification.

The leak of the password's correctness here is ultimately not problematic as it acts as a tripwire and a surprise for the attacker. In fact the platform can take action on the user's behalf and lock logins with that password until the user confirms it was them trying to login via a separate channel (if you used Google 2FA this is what they do). It also protects accounts without 2FA because it becomes risky for the attacker to just try a password list they find. Maybe they're lucky and get in, or maybe the account has 2FA and you've just burned the password by trying it and alerting the user/platform about the compromise.

If it were the other way around with 2FA first, you would have no way of knowing your password is compromised somewhere. Even if the attacker knew the right password, the would not attempt to login unless they defeated the 2FA. Now you have no early warning system, and it becomes all-or-nothing: attacker get full access or they wait silently.

To sum it up: The login is no weaker if you put 2FA after password auth (same amount of compromises needed to get in). 2FA after password can leak password validity information for a short duration of time (on the scale of 15mins), but it also sets in motion an alarm that invalidates that password when an attack is attempted. 2FA after password also provides a tiny bit of extra protection to non-2FA accounts by letting them hide among the 2FA ones.

(Also, the original purpose of 2FA after password is to cut down costs for the platform back when SMS 2FA was the only 2FA. This is largely irrelevant today with TOTP and FIDO2 relegating SMS based authentication as the least secure option.)




I think we're still talking past each other. In both of your comments, you seem focused on the particular site with the 2FA. I'm suggesting that that vector is irrelevant.

I'm not concerned about someone hacking this site with the 2FA tripwire, but instead about leaking password's correctness could impact usage of that password on other sites that use the same username/password and do not have 2FA.

Imagine if I go to Amazon and put in jabbany@email.com / hunter2 and then come up against a 2FA prompt instead of a password error prompt. Okay. I have a signal that suggests that hunter2 is, in fact, your password. I bail immediately. No point in randomly trying to guess a 2FA auth code.

Now I go to Walmart.com and put in jabbany@email.com / hunter2, and it works -- because there's no 2FA on Walmart.com and you re-used the password!

In this scenario, 2FA doesn't actually stop the hacker from compromising your accounts! It only stops this account with 2FA -- in that sense, you are 100% correct! -- but perhaps only temporarily, because they may be able to compromise other accounts that would allow them to eventually reset your 2FA tokens and get through.

If Amazon were to tell me "hey, someone failed the 2FA auth attempt, you should you change your password," then that's one thing. But we both know most sites don't do that.


Password reuse is a very different issue. You should not be reusing passwords on accounts you care about period. 2FA isn't meant to protect against reuse (though it does help). If a password is reused your 2FA becomes just 1 factor.

This does not make reuse more dangerous either. An attacker with a leaked password list will try them against known sites anyways. If they wanted to try a leaked password against Walmart they'd have done it regardless of the 2FA signal. There's no reason to assume that if a password is (in)correct on one site that it would (not) be on another. The information of whether a password worked or not on a site means nothing to someone trying to hack your account.

Also 2FA sites do do this already. Google and Amazon both do this along with many others (and increasingly many). Also it does not have to force a password reset. A notification email about an attempt is sufficient, you can decide for yourself whether it was you or a suspicious attacker.


This is fine as long as you notify the account holder based on both a failed 2FA OR just ignoring the 2FA prompt rather than making an attempt.

Personally I don't know enough to know if that's the case?




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