All of that is true about my Army experience lol. If I could go back and do it again, I'd definitely choose Air Force. I agree that the military can be a positive experience and it's a good idea for some people, but the caveat with my endorsement is that you gotta carefully choose the branch and the job.
I almost chose linguistics, but for some silly reason chose mechanic and paratrooper, and wouldn't you know it I ended up with injuries causing me to walk with a cane in my 20s.
> All of that is true about my Army experience lol. If I could go back and do it again, I'd definitely choose Air Force.
Yes, it varies wildly based on branch, different units or battalions/brigades etc, and which MOS (job) you are. Or if you are enlisted or officer. I had a leadership change in my company over a period of like 6 months where all senior enlisted and officers changed, and it was like night and day different. Very micro-managed. It was like being back in Basic Training at Ft. Benning, insane. This ruined it for me, I chose not to re-enlist. I do really miss a lot of camaraderie, and every point in the "Why do I do it?" section of the article resonates very strongly with me.
I'd also chose Air Force or Navy instead of Army if I did it over again. Better training. More impactful missions I think for my MOS (Satcom). Not sure it would be available though, Navy and Air Force don't have as much "room" for folks then (2011) and especially now.
As I understand it, space force is doing ramping up by keeping the same Air Force people in the same Air Force desks off the same Air Force building and changing their uniforms and insignia.
> you gotta carefully choose the branch and the job
yes absolutely. I'd even say "the job" is the most important part. There are Army jobs that are pretty good, and there are Air Force jobs that are pretty bad.
There's a saying in the Navy I was told from day 1 at the recruiter's office:
Choose your rate, choose your fate.
Your choice can be the difference between getting out after 4-6 years and easily making six figures, or struggling to find employment at $35k. Not to mention your lifestyle while in and other side effects of your service like PTSD.
For sure, speaking for the Navy (though I'm sure the same applies for the other services as well). Cryptologic/electronic/nuclear fields are all known to be cash cows after getting out. Granted, you need to score well on your ASVAB, especially for nuclear fields. But the ASVAB can be studied for and is probably the easiest of all the standardized tests someone that age may face in my experience.
Not asking for myself. I am a high school English teacher, and I am currently helping a young man with his application to the academy. He is committed to the Air Force either way, but I try to pass along any information that I come across (with the caveat, of course, that I don’t know what I’m talking about).
I joined Air Force active duty for a 4 year hitch when 9/11 happened, and was in the Air National Guard for a few years after my initial enlistment. I mention that because some things may have changed since I've been out more than a decade, but I don't think they have. Individual job descriptions do change though, so I will only give high-level advice rather than specific AFSC/MOS.
I went into Satellite, Wideband, and Telemetry Systems, commonly called SATCOM (although we did have wideband terminals like the TRC-170 and the GRC-239 TSSR). It could be lucrative with the right experience, but for most people it wasn't (although I was able to get a civilian job pretty easily with the skills/training but it wasn't highly paid).
The Air Force has deepened their cybersecurity expertise quite a bit, and even has some great opportunities for enlisted airmen. That can be a very lucrative field when you get out (and is also badass while you're in, from what I'm told). This is a very lucrative field if you're good at it, and still a good living even if you suck. Before doing this, be confident that the person considering this would be able to get a TS/SCI clearance. Read the requirements and make sure they aren't disqualified. If they've smoked pot before but no longer do, they have never smoked pot ;-). If can't get a clearance, opportunities in the service will be limited and some specialized training will not be accessible.
Some people will say "linguist" but it has not been my experience that that is all that usable outside the military unless you want to work for State (US State Department). If you are really, really good you can find lucrative opportunities though.
Anything nuclear is also pretty good if you can get it. Aircraft mechanic can be good, but the number of employers isn't huge and you'll work your ass off while still in the service.
From experience, nuclear is not good. The career field has some of the lowest morale in the whole DoD, both officer and enlisted. Postmil options are only available if you have advanced degrees and are highly geographically limited (national laboratories, some contractor sites)
Speaking as an Army Cyber guy who is also a reservist (about to get out, so FWIW); the Army Cyber programs are not good. The (US) Army Culture is bad, very bad. Sure, if you're intelligent and enterprising you can have a path to getting some awesome training; however, the reality is most of the Army is really, really, really dumb. Senior Leaders at the G-Staff level (O6 & >) will have very little understanding of the value to the mission, will constantly think Cyber <> Tech. are interchangeable disciplines and will be FAR FAR more focused on how high you can score on the fitness test than your actual ability to do the work (mission).
The missions I've gotten to be a part of were awesome; however, I could have experienced just as much "cyber knife fighting" in the civilian world had I taken that track (perhaps more, because less rules) and I would have had a lot less bullshit.
Now, I'm a physician, and I'd say this - my residency was more bearable than the last 19 years in the army guard. I'm happy to be getting out soon, and while I will miss the friends I've made, I won't miss the organization as a whole.
I'll say the unpopular but hard truth. Relative to other nations, US DoD Cyber Forces by and of large part are woefully inadequate and unprepared for the real cyber fight. Sure, bright exceptions exist at the 3 letter agencies, and the occasional few people in the uniformed services - but these folks are rare, and they rarely stick around long. There is a lot of Cyber "showmanship" and BS, and most people are dis-incentivized from telling the truth about how bad at is - because they all want the prestige to help them attract high paying civilian jobs. I get it. But, I'll say the US taxpayer should be very concerned about how so much money was spent for frankly so very little.
The average US Army Cyber soldier can't even explain how an exploit works, technically. Moreover, they have a complete lack of cloud training or concepts or really any depth at all. Yet, they have all convinced themselves that if "cyber 9/11" happened - they'd somehow be useful to civilian companies, city governments and utilities beyond getting the people who know what they're doing some coffee. And this is a shame, because 15 years ago the potential existed for this to be much better; but a lack of new leaders who understand tech, greed and the DIB machine have made the situation unbearable.
I feel sorry for the United States. We could have done so much better, but real systemic change in the Army seems absolutely impossible. I still hear racist, homophobic and sexist jokes on the regular - despite the big push for "zero tolerance". The DOD hasn't, and likely won't ever change. It is simply too big and too slow and too entrenched.
Plenty of options. Any sort of intel field, lots of technical or mechanic fields -- some of them like fixing F-18 radars, are serious door openers; even diesel mechanics can do well as a civilian -- and plenty of less shooty roles, like dental or x-ray technicians, electricians, satellite techs, etc.
I know dudes who went into the AF and USMC and ended up as programmers, to include 1+ years of coding training.
Meanwhile the infantry guys end up as cops or security guards, lot of the logistic guys end up as truckers, etc.
Everyone wants to get into the Air Force, so if you are applying to say subsidize your medical education, you’ll find that there aren’t many openings; so most people tend to opt for the Navy. The Army is the last choice for most people.
This goes back to assignment of conscripts in WW II. Since the end of the Cold War, spoilsports have noticed that one reason the old German army did so well was that they got a higher proportion of high-quality recruits than their UK or US counterparts. The US and UK needed navies to fight the war, and they also gave their air forces a higher priority for recruits relative to their armies.
I’m not sure that’s relevant to even Gen X’ers. I think the real answer is which branch of the military is more notorious for abuse with their members. Historically, it tends to be the Army.
Your biggest issue was choosing to be a light wheel mechanic in an airborne unit. If you think survival rates for combat dropping troopers are bad, I'd hate to show you the actual percentage of HMMWVs that drive away from a drop zone.
YMMV, but I was Army too. And everyone I dealt with was an adult.
At the absolute end of the Cold War we were on the ground crew for a demonstration jump for some Soviet generals. The wind was too high for a safe jump but, Soviets, so they jumped anyways.
Two arty cannons and a Sheridan tank burned in because they got swaying enough to collapse their shoots. Plus three chalks ended up in the trees also due to the high winds.
They (luckily I wasn’t on the hook and ladder crew) spent the rest of the day recovering the parachutes from the trees while we just tried to not draw attention to ourselves so we didn’t have to help with the recovery operation.
Only time I ever saw heavy drops go wrong and I was on ground crew many a time — there were a couple times we did have to scatter because one was landing right where we were standing but those things are easy to see even on a night jump.
It's the military term for Humvee - the huge vehicle that was popular for a while when gas was cheap. Or rather "hum vee" is how it is pronounced and the civilians spelled it phonetically.
> If I could go back and do it again, I'd definitely choose Air Force
Aye, I hear that. Mixed experience, overall. I did signals intelligence stuff in the USMC and if I'd have to do it again I'd go back and be blue-water Navy.
Were these injuries in training or in War ? I thought that paratrooper training was made really safe nowadays with extensive basic training done by Sergeant Airbornes in the BAC course. (assuming US)
Airborne training is "safe" in the sense that they thoroughly teach you all the steps and do lots of ground training before getting in a plane. But by no means does that mean your body won't get wrecked by doing jumps.
The parachutes are designed for combat: their goal isn't a soft landing, it's to get you out of the sky as fast as possible.
I was stationed in Alaska. Wintertime jumps were a toss-up in terms of landing in a big pile of snow — or solid ice.
A few things in play here. Each job has certain quotas they have to fill. Too many of one job will make advancement nearly impossible which prevents people from moving up into leadership positions and will eventually cause a shortage when those that can’t promote decide to leave. Recruiters have quotas too, like 2.5 recruits this month or at least one female this month, etc.
Your ASVAB score and likelihood of qualifying for a clearance are also considered. You can join the military without being a citizen (and can get expedited citizenship), but your job prospects will be limited to non clearance jobs, for example.
When you go to the Military Entrance Processing Stations (MEPS), you are put through a bunch of medical tests and once you are cleared for entry, you go on to negotiate the job you want. This is where you have to stick up for yourself. The recruiters there, who you don’t know, will try to push you one way. For instance, I wanted IT which I was told was full. Instead, I was offered “deck seamanship” which I was told let me get a feel of different jobs which I could the “strike” (apply) for. It sounded good, but I really wanted IT. I stood my ground and said I wasn’t in a rush and I could wait until IT opened up. They aren’t letting you out that door if they can help it, and I magically got IT with a signing bonus no less.
Come to find out deck seamanship meant I would be chipping paint and repainting the ship and other really hard grunt work. By the time I would have struck for another job, my peers would have been promoted years ahead of me. It helps to talk to a vet or have them go with you when talking to the recruiters. The recruiters don’t always lie, but they do sometimes only reveal the information they think is important.
Is "IT" in the military the same as citizen professional/corporate? As in, mostly "administrator" level work or is it more expansive? I'm just curious in the sense that it either may be all encompassing like programming too, or perhaps things I never heard of. Just curious, thanks! I appreciate the reply.
I'm guessing you can do the ASVAB before "signing on?"
Somewhat. If you say choose to be an electrician, and it’s later found you are colorblind, you will be placed somewhere. When I joined the Navy, I was given the rate of AV, which doesn’t really exist at the lower ranks. After joining (read contract already signed) I found out that I would be an AE.
All of that is true about my Army experience lol. If I could go back and do it again, I'd definitely choose Air Force. I agree that the military can be a positive experience and it's a good idea for some people, but the caveat with my endorsement is that you gotta carefully choose the branch and the job.
I almost chose linguistics, but for some silly reason chose mechanic and paratrooper, and wouldn't you know it I ended up with injuries causing me to walk with a cane in my 20s.